Cubed pilsner fermenting before adding yeast..

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Doctormcbrewdle

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Hi all,

I brewed an all grain pilsner on Saturday, hot cubed it into a clean (had pbw sitting in it before rinse and Starsan) cube at near 100 degrees. Gave it about 7 hours before quickly opening and tipping in my flameout Hallertau.

Now, 4 days later it's blown up like a balloon about to burst so I quickly let some gas escape. What happened? How could such a tiny window cause this?

If this has happened on this one occasion then I'm going to assume that wild yeast are getting into my wort every time. I literally just had the cap off for ten seconds before spraying Starsan into the cube and closing it up..

Will let it ferment and see if it's possibly salvageable and also what the final gravity is.

Damn it, really pissed off about this. I'm assuming my last beer made the same way is probably also contaminated too. Haven't tasted it yet



What can I possibly do moving forward? I'm at a loss now
 

beergee

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Hi all,

I brewed an all grain pilsner on Saturday, hot cubed it into a clean (had pbw sitting in it before rinse and Starsan) cube at near 100 degrees. Gave it about 7 hours before quickly opening and tipping in my flameout Hallertau.

Now, 4 days later it's blown up like a balloon about to burst so I quickly let some gas escape. What happened? How could such a tiny window cause this?

If this has happened on this one occasion then I'm going to assume that wild yeast are getting into my wort every time. I literally just had the cap off for ten seconds before spraying Starsan into the cube and closing it up..

Will let it ferment and see if it's possibly salvageable and also what the final gravity is.

Damn it, really pissed off about this. I'm assuming my last beer made the same way is probably also contaminated too. Haven't tasted it yet



What can I possibly do moving forward? I'm at a loss now
Unless there was some wild yeast sitting on the hop pellets....?
 

Doctormcbrewdle

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Unless there was some wild yeast sitting on the hop pellets....?
You never know. They came from an airtight bag in the freezer fwiw

I have heard that contamination just doesn't happen with hops though so assume no
 

Doctormcbrewdle

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For flavour extraction with the heat. No chiller but don't want any bitterness above 75 degrees

It would seem it barely matters in my case because wild yeast are making it in either way
 

beergee

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For flavour extraction with the heat. No chiller but don't want any bitterness above 75 degrees

It would seem it barely matters in my case because wild yeast are making it in either way
Could you pour it into the fermenter and pitch the proper yeast in the hope that it might overtake the wild stuff?
 

TheAussieBrewer

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One thing on your cleaning, are you pulling the seal out of the lid and cleaning them separately? when I first started No Chilling I was caught out by this simple oversight a couple of times before I figured out what was going on.

I'd suggest tipping it into a fermenter and adding the yeast now, over pitch by a bit if you can and dry hop it to mask any off flavours, because there will be off flavours. if it doesn't turn out then its just a bit of wasted yeast at this point.
 

mje1980

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Wait til the beer is 75c, add hops to cube then fill your cube. I do this for some beers with no problem. Opening up later may be letting something funky in while the temp is below sterilisation/sanitisation temp.

Do you know what the temp of the cube was when you opened it?

I had a cube not long ago that didn’t seal properly. I noticed it the next day. It looked fine, no fermentation or anything. I asked some fellow brewers and someone old me to re boil it. Re boiled it for 5 mins and re cubed. It sealed, and the batch was fine. Not really helpful in your situation though.
 

Doctormcbrewdle

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One thing on your cleaning, are you pulling the seal out of the lid and cleaning them separately? when I first started No Chilling I was caught out by this simple oversight a couple of times before I figured out what was going on.

I'd suggest tipping it into a fermenter and adding the yeast now, over pitch by a bit if you can and dry hop it to mask any off flavours, because there will be off flavours. if it doesn't turn out then its just a bit of wasted yeast at this point.
Mine doesn't appear to have a seal, though I haven't been cleaning it separately either so who knows... I would have thought that the boiling wort would kill anything left on but then again, who knows for sure. Will make sure I clean that separately from now on.

I ended up tipping the lot, it was smelling pretty manky, and a smell I'm quite familiar with from my time brewing here over the years. I'm guessing it's wild local yeast that I'm fighting


IMG20210310150750.jpg
 

MHB

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Two things

I suspect there should be a silicone rubber seal in the lid. Never seen one made without a seal. Lacking a seal it would suck in air as it cools and that would almost certainly infect it.
Second is related, if you open a cube before use, you will almost certainly infect it. Same as if you opened a tin of anchovies to add some more salt then put them back in the cupboard.
Opening the can would almost guarantee an infection (will go rotten) but if kept sealed the same anchovies would be safe for years.

Mark
 

Doctormcbrewdle

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Two things

I suspect there should be a silicone rubber seal in the lid. Never seen one made without a seal. Lacking a seal it would suck in air as it cools and that would almost certainly infect it.
Second is related, if you open a cube before use, you will almost certainly infect it. Same as if you opened a tin of anchovies to add some more salt then put them back in the cupboard.
Opening the can would almost guarantee an infection (will go rotten) but if kept sealed the same anchovies would be safe for years.

Mark
Damn you're right aren't you.. Think I do remember a rubber seal inside at some point. And no more opening after hot cube!!

Thanks mate
 

Duploman

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Happened to me the first time I cubed. Next time I filled to the brim with hot wort then capped then turned over so the hot wort heat sanitized the handle and lid, never had a prob since. I rescued the original by calling it a wild yeast sour, quite drinkable too.
 

beerbong

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Damn you're right aren't you.. Think I do remember a rubber seal inside at some point. And no more opening after hot cube!!

Thanks mate
I have found the rubber seal comes out of the lid sometimes when it sticks to the rim of the opening on the cube. Couple of times I didn't notice for a bit and could have easily lost it if it fell off and rolled away
 

andy@67

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Opening a cube before putting it in the fermenter is fraught with danger.
Though I get where you are coming from for the flame out addition. I treat a flame out, no chill addition as a 20 minute boil addition.
What I do when I want a flame out addition, is to make a "hop tea" I boil a couple of litres of water throw the hops in at flame out and let it cool in the freezer then add it to the fermenter with the cubed wort.
If I want to do a yeast starter I add some dry malt extract to the water and pitch the yeast into that before adding it to the fermenter, after a couple of days.
This will give a reasonable "flame out" flavour without exposing your cubed wort to the air, with its attendant dangers.
Cheers.
Andrew.
 

JDW81

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Never open a cube unless you plan on pitching yeast.

I get my late hop flavour in cubed beers by doing the following.
1: Calculate the IBUs your beer needs to be (I use beer smith and aim for the ballpark figures given in various reference/style guides)
2: Add a small 60 minute bittering addition (say 20% of the IBUs)
3: Add the rest of your IBUs as a cube addition once you decant into your cube (I calculate it as a 15 minute addition).
4: Ferment as usual.

The flavour you get is like a mix between a late boil/whirlpool addition. Works for every style I’ve attempted with it so far (and I’ve put a heap of hops into the cube in the past - like 150g without any issues/grassiness etc).

JD
 
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