Cube swollen

[bpt]

I've got a cube of Pilsner that is swelling, I've opened it up to relieve the pressure and smell it, it just smells like normal fermentation. I haven't put any yeast in obviously so it is an infection of some description. I thought an infection would smell rank/rancid?
Should I ditch it now or ferment it properly?
Cheers
Tom.

 

[S.E]

I've got a cube of Pilsner that is swelling, I've opened it up to relieve the pressure and smell it, it just smells like normal fermentation. I haven't put any yeast in obviously so it is an infection of some description. I thought an infection would smell rank/rancid?
Should I ditch it now or ferment it properly?
Cheers
Tom.

Just loosen the lid and let it ferment as it is. If it tastes OK when it’s finished drink it , if it doesn’t tip it.

Edit: There’s not much else worth doing at this stage.
Cheers Sean

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Definitely ditch as its the only time with beer that you can end up with harmful toxins if botulism is the infection (although I think botulism can smell rank, experts?).. best to be safe and take it as a learning curve though. If you didnt tip yeast in the most likely whatever itnis wont taste like a nice beer along the lines of your intended recipe.

 

[kevo]

Had my first swollen cube recently.

Tried to salavage, then thought better of it, ditched the beer and the cube too - just to be on the safe side.

I vote ditch the beer and the cube too. Happy to be over ruled though...

 

[OneEye]

You could take a gravity reading and see if it's dropped, that will tell you for sure if something has got a hold of the sugazzz

 

[bpt]

I'm thinking I'll ditch it, it was part of a double batch anyway.
Thanks for the tips
Cheers Tom.

 

[Spiesy]

Just a thought, but it could be wild yeast at work...

 

[geneabovill]

You mentioned 'normal fermentation smell'.. Maybe it's infected with something good.

I'd let it ferment out, give some to the neighbour, and if they don't die, and it tastes good, drink it.

 

[Yob]

Any swollen cube should be tipped, it's not worth the risk

 

[r055c0]

Listening to the latest episode of basic brewing this morning and they touched on this. Apparently botulism cant survive in beer so if it is actually fermenting & producing alcohol the risk should be zero. I'd be inclined to see if the gravity is dropping, and if it is let it ferment out. It might still taste **** but then again it might not.

If you've already written it off then you've got nothing to lose

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Yes but botulism is not the problem, its the toxins they produce so if they produce some before you ferment (as it swells) then these toxins are still there in the beer and could be at a dangerous level.

For me its playing with fire. Spend the time and effort up front ensuring that a swollen cube wont occur.

 

[Yob]

Listening to the latest episode of basic brewing this morning and they touched on this. Apparently botulism cant survive in beer so if it is actually fermenting & producing alcohol the risk should be zero. I'd be inclined to see if the gravity is dropping, and if it is let it ferment out. It might still taste **** but then again it might not.

If you've already written it off then you've got nothing to lose

Beer no, wort yes, and they will consume sugars and produce gas, if the cube is swelling without yeast being added, the risk is quite high. Unacceptably so.

 

[GalBrew]

The odds of it being botulism that has infected the wort is quite low, it is probably just wild yeast. That being said I wouldn't risk it. I would be tipping it, not worth the risk for a batch of beer.

Perhaps there is something off with your cubing technique? How did you cube this wort exactly? If done properly it should be fine for up to 1 year at least (I have found anyway).

 

[S.E]

Such a difference in opinions. :lol: While it is being discussed here if it’s best to keep or dump a possible wild yeast ferment this thread has started up with someone deliberately trying to start one. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/80016-another-wild-yeast-fermentation/#entry1171535

 

[rotten]

Ditch it as you said you would. Nuke the cube or ditch that too.

Botulism h34r:

 

[S.E]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambic

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambic

Unless the OP lives in the Pajottenland region of Belgium, I'd be more wary that it's not "spontaneous" fermentation of the ideal kind. He had a sealed cube that should have been cleaned and sanitized. The fact something has happened, whether it ends up being harmful or not, demonstrates that the OP's cleaning/sanitizing regime did not work for some reason in this instance.

No matter what reasoning anyone comes up with here, the risk of botulism, whilst unlikely, is not something anyone on here should tell the OP to ignore, plain and simple.

 

[Yob]

A sealed swollen cube is more likely to be the result of spores than wild yeast.. Hence the unacceptable risks

 

[kahlerisms]

I'm thinking I'll ditch it, it was part of a double batch anyway.
Thanks for the tips
Cheers Tom.

I had this exact issue and wrote about it here:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/79331-how-much-infection-is-too-much-infection-swollen-cube/

 

[pcmfisher]

Unless the OP lives in the Pajottenland region of Belgium, I'd be more wary that it's not "spontaneous" fermentation of the ideal kind. He had a sealed cube that should have been cleaned and sanitized. The fact something has happened, whether it ends up being harmful or not, demonstrates that the OP's cleaning/sanitizing regime did not work for some reason in this instance.

No matter what reasoning anyone comes up with here, the risk of botulism, whilst unlikely, is not something anyone on here should tell the OP to ignore, plain and simple.

Except if it is infact botulism.

As stated, botulism spores are not killed by normal boiling.
They are in your wort when it goes into the cube.
No amount of cube sanitation or any sanitattion proceedure is going to get rid of them.

They are there. Just like in honey and on potatoes.

The question is, why would these spores decide to give off toxins in the op's wort and not anyone else's??

I think this is a pretty important question if there is any chance at all of it being botulism, because holding your mouth a different way while mixing up your starsan ain't going to make any difference.

 

[Yob]

For me, the important thing really is that it's a possibility that can't be discounted and the risks are too severe to warrant taking the chance.. Better to ditch and be "able" to brew again...

I do agree it's unlikely to be botulism, if anyone has a definitive method to test for either a wild yeast or the other, I'm keen to hear it.

Swollen cubes, ones generating gas, easy for me to get a gauge on that as I have 0 air in my cubes, are tossed down the road...

If you do other, good luck and power to you, you thumb your nose at dangers I do not.

 

[S.E]

Calls in to question if we should be fermenting anything really. How do we know for sure if the yeast we have pitched has done its job or if it’s in fact botulism?
What about making starters from say the dregs from bottles?

Dangerous hobby this home brewing, perhaps it should be banned.

No chilling should be banned at least with its associated dangers like botulism and exploding cubes.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The OP didn't mention what steps he took when filling the cube, was the wort still very hot, did the cube suck in when the wort cooled, what is the length of time the wort has been in the cube?
If the cube didn't suck in when the vacuum was created by the cooling wort there is most probably a problem with the seal, plastic cubes are permeable, but as has been mentioned on here before some have left wort in a cube for an age, yeast is every where over our clothes, bodies and in the air and if one particular yeast is mainly used by the OP there is a good possibility that it is that strain of yeast which has started the fermentation, I would add the yeast which was going to be added let it ferment out and see what happens, you have nothing to loose and it will not kill you.

 

[Yob]

... hopefully ... or make you extremely ill ... hopefully ...

Why chance it?

Look, Im certainly not the most paranoid among us but FFS... something has the 'potential' to cause serious negative health effects... and People tell the OP to do this and that and 'see what happens'... FF'sFS... Really?

S.E, I believe your sarcasm font has been disabled, this could potentially explain why you so often are mis understood... perhaps contacting admin to have your sarcasm rigth renewed may help with your ongoing issues.

:blink: :unsure:

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I've had my mouth around worse things than what is likely to come out of that cube. B)

 

[sponge]

I've had my mouth around worse things than what is likely to come out of that cube. B)

The finest yeast of all h34r:

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Interesting choice of verb, around?...

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The finest yeast of all h34r:

More likely to drop out of a beard than be airborne.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Interesting choice of verb, around?...

I was referring to close to, a poor choice of a word, hope there are no horses hoofs reading this.

 

[bpt]

It's been ditched. It did smell awesome though.

I didn't fancy saving a few $$$ in return for some botulism or whatever nastiness was present.

Cheers
Tom.