Crap Cider

[Chookers]

I tried making Cider a while back and I have ended up with something closer to wine.. I only made 8 litres of the stuff.. anyway my question is:

Is there any way to turn this back into cider, brining down the alcohol content and increasing the sweetness and also enphasizing the apple flavour. I was thinking of adding some Preshafruit Juice Apple Juice... and I really wanted to carbonate in the bottle, I have 12 glass and 24 PET bottles.. I like the glass better but dont want a bottle bomb.

These wannabe Ciders were originally made from bottles of fresh apple juice. The cider/wine is nice and clear now, and in a very cold fridge.

Any ways would like to hear any ideas or advice on this issue..

Thanx

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I tried making Cider a while back and I have ended up with something closer to wine.. I only made 8 litres of the stuff.. anyway my question is:

Is there any way to turn this back into cider, brining down the alcohol content and increasing the sweetness and also enphasizing the apple flavour. I was thinking of adding some Preshafruit Juice Apple Juice... and I really wanted to carbonate in the bottle, I have 12 glass and 24 PET bottles.. I like the glass better but dont want a bottle bomb.

These wannabe Ciders were originally made from bottles of fresh apple juice. The cider/wine is nice and clear now, and in a very cold fridge.

Any ways would like to hear any ideas or advice on this issue..

Thanx

Carbonate as normal. When you want to drink, mix it 50/50 with cold apple juice. IF you add more apple juice, it'll just get more alcoholic, not less; and remain as dry.

Apples are simple fruit sugars. Yeast loves simple sugars and eats it all up. Hence why it's dry (no residual sugars to make it sweeter, because anything that would be residual is eaten).

If you keg (which it appears you don't), mix 50/50 into the keg with apple juice and force carb.

 

[Chookers]

Thanks LRG, I thought this might be the case.. sadly I havent got the equipment/funds or space to Keg.. I wish I did.. will adding juice to carbonated cider lower the carbonation..?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Thanks LRG, I thought this might be the case.. sadly I havent got the equipment/funds or space to Keg.. I wish I did.. will adding juice to carbonated cider lower the carbonation..?

Yep. But unless you can get some straight sparkling apple, lower carb may be your only option. Don't forget that cider tends to be fizzier (though doesn't have the head retention of beer) so this might suit your tastes at any rate.

 

[Bribie G]

Yes it will, but you can always use Apple Isle sparkling apple juice if they still make the stuff.

 

[jaypes]

You can ferment the apple juice as normal and halt the yeast drying out the cider completely by pasteurisation, I read about it a while back on HomeBrewTalk.

Although I have never done it, I didn't really like the idea of half boiling pressurised bottles - but apparently it can be done safely.

I don't drink cider but make it for my mates, they do the 60/40 cider (more like vinegar to me!) to fresh apple and blackcurrant juice

Ducks nuts apparently

 

[jaypes]

you can also sweeten the cider with lactose as it is not fermentable by the yeast.

Tried that once

sweet vinegar

and if your lactose intolerant - well that a whole other story

 

[Fossey]

I pasteurise my bottled ciders in my dishwasher all the time with great success. It gradually warms up the bottles rather than dunking into a hot pot. Set and forget, if they blow - and I've only had one go - its all contained and easily cleaned up.

 

[Hyper.Intelligent.Fish]

I pasteurise my bottled ciders in my dishwasher all the time with great success. It gradually warms up the bottles rather than dunking into a hot pot. Set and forget, if they blow - and I've only had one go - its all contained and easily cleaned up.

This is genius. I must try it.

I tried making Cider a while back and I have ended up with something closer to wine.. I only made 8 litres of the stuff.. anyway my question is:

Is there any way to turn this back into cider, brining down the alcohol content and increasing the sweetness and also enphasizing the apple flavour. I was thinking of adding some Preshafruit Juice Apple Juice... and I really wanted to carbonate in the bottle, I have 12 glass and 24 PET bottles.. I like the glass better but dont want a bottle bomb.

These wannabe Ciders were originally made from bottles of fresh apple juice. The cider/wine is nice and clear now, and in a very cold fridge.

Any ways would like to hear any ideas or advice on this issue..

Thanx

You can add pasteurise the cider, then add more juice to sweeten the mix. It will dilute the cider, reducing the alcohol content, and without any further active yeast carbonation should not continue further.

I'm by no means an expert, and I might have this backwards, but nonetheless I go on.

You could pour the whole lot back into a fermenter, add more sugar, and let it run. This will increase the alcohol content, but eventually you'll hit a point where the alcohol content is too much for the yeast to survive in, and fermentation stops. It won't be carbonated, but the still cider will be sweet due to the "undigested" sugars.

 

[Pickaxe]

I'm interested, while on the topic, whether some people use malt (high mash temp) in their cider recipes, or spec grain, to get sweetness and some body behind the "winey" 'strongbow' kind of cider tastes? I guess, a (hopefully not so) stupid question would be whether people use hops? Or am I starting to talk about a whole different kettle here?

 

[manticle]

Not stupid - google graff.

There's a very popular recipe on Homebrewtalk by brandon or brando (from memory) so google 'brand graf homebrewtalk' and see what that brings up.

Whoever said cider is fizzier needs a cider history lesson (and to taste some good stuff - just like beer there are different ciders and different fizz levels - from none to some).

 

[manticle]

^ Brandon O

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/graff-malty-slightly-hopped-cider-117117/

 

[Chookers]

Hmmm.. alot here to think about. Im going to try some of these out..

I have a stevia plant in my garden.. I wonder if I could use that somehow, to increase the sweetness, and carb one bottle.

 

[Pickaxe]

Mate of mine used to use stevia in distilling practices.

 

[Pickaxe]

Thanks Manticle, will google graff (+ beer) and ignore all the street art. Been wondering about Bulmers and whether it has a malt component.

 

[Pickaxe]

Now I'm thinking about an apple and Galaxy (Passionfruit) cider with a lovely toffee spec malt backbone.

 

[Deep End]

I think if you start adding grains or malts or too much else you aren't really making cider anymore are you? Dont get me wrong I like my apple and black currant cider but I think the pure apple cider tastes better in the long run, especially as they get some age on them. What starts out as a dry winey cider (probably due to yeast variety used) will gain some apple flavours and aromas back after a few months conditioning I have found in my brief experience with this beverage.

Another alternative to sweetening the cider is just keep drinking it, eventually you'll like dry cider :chug:

 

[Pickaxe]

Ha! Thanks deep end, just asked a similar question on another thread you were on. So, you're a cider man, through and through!

 

[Deep End]

I am at the moment, I like buggering around with it, still love a beer or whatever but cider is my new favourite thing. Just something about it, never used to drink it till I started making it. I always thought it tasted like cheap wine, but now I know its just mainstream commercial lolly water that tastes like cheap wine LOL.

 

[technobabble66]

Hmmm.. alot here to think about. Im going to try some of these out..

I have a stevia plant in my garden.. I wonder if I could use that somehow, to increase the sweetness, and carb one bottle.

Hey Chookers,
FWIW, Brewraft use a small amount of finely powdered stevia in (one of) their Ginger Beer kits. Ginger beer has the same problem as cider i'm guessing - the brewing techniques we use to get carbonated GB in a bottle results in a v v dry drink. The stevia works moderately well - has that slightly artificial sweetener taste (if you're sensitive to those things), and i'd suggest about half the amount they recommend in the recipe. But it beats lactose - recent studies indicate most adults have a mild to moderate intolerance of lactose.

For GB, i could repeat the stevia at half strength if necessary.
But i'm keen to try the pasteurising thing (mentioned in comment #6 above) covered in Homebrewtalk somewhere. Just need a deep enough pot for your bottles. The guy who writes about it claims he's done it heaps of times with no explosion. OTOH, that dishwasher idea sounds great too!

 

[Pickaxe]

@ Deep end - thats because a lot of companies flavour **** wine and sell it as Cider or Ginger Beer.

Adults aren't built to ingest lactose - thats what weening is about. Though i still don't mind locking on a tit or two when i get the chance...

 

[Chookers]

Thanks to everyone for your responses, its amazing how much you all know and how fast these responses are comming in. This is truely an awesome forum.. :super:

so this pasteurization thing is on carbed bottles.. kill the yeast keep the fizz.. sounds crazy.

My favourite store bought cider at the moment is Dirty Granny.. Im working my way through each brand, but I stalled on that one because I liked it so much.. might stop my cider search.

I enjoy Ginger Beer, but my experience with them has always been too dry and too alcoholic, and the store bought are all lolly water and im not talking about the soft drink kind.

I suppose I could carb up one bottle and pasteurize it.. Do you use glass or PET?

 

[JDW81]

I guess, a (hopefully not so) stupid question would be whether people use hops? Or am I starting to talk about a whole different kettle here?

Not so stupid really.

Many ciders have a certain level of tannin that you can taste. This comes (as far as I know) from the apples traditionally used in cider (drink a proper UK cider and it is a very different beast to most of the commercial versions available). Cider apples are very different to table apples, and have a much lower level of sweetness. Cider can also be made with crab apples, which again taste very different to your good old granny smith. This fruit imparts a level of bitterness/astringency/tannin mouth feel (can't quite think of the right word, but I'm sure you catch my drift) that you generally can't achieve with store bought apple juice or a cider kit.

To counter that there are some things you can add to try to emulate this character, and (flame suit on) hops are one of them. I've made cider with a small amount of cascade hops and it adds a very subtle bitterness that is reminiscent of what you might expect from a good UK cider. I usually add them to a small volume of water with some sugar and spices and boil for a bit. I've also heard of people using strong green tea to add tannins, but I've never tried this one yet.


JD.

 

[benen]

One of my mates got me into wanting to homebrew when I tried one of his ciders. No sweeteners added. Just a few modifications to a kit I believe and while it wasn't as crisp and clean as a Magners or Bulmers I really enjoyed it and didn't find it too dry to my taste at all. I'm just hoping my first batch comes out remotely similar after sitting in the bottles for a while. I've tried cheap cider, both apple and pear from the shop and they just taste like slightly alcoholic cordial to me. Criminal to even call it cider

 

[Fossey]

Thanks to everyone for your responses, its amazing how much you all know and how fast these responses are comming in. This is truely an awesome forum.. :super:

so this pasteurization thing is on carbed bottles.. kill the yeast keep the fizz.. sounds crazy.

My favourite store bought cider at the moment is Dirty Granny.. Im working my way through each brand, but I stalled on that one because I liked it so much.. might stop my cider search.

I enjoy Ginger Beer, but my experience with them has always been too dry and too alcoholic, and the store bought are all lolly water and im not talking about the soft drink kind.

I suppose I could carb up one bottle and pasteurize it.. Do you use glass or PET?

Pasteurising is for carbonated sweet ciders. A dry cider natural ferments out, ie - the yeast have nothing left to eat. They are easily carbonated in the bottle the same way as a beer, without needing to pasteurise.

Try the range of ciders from Westons. More along the lines of what you'll be able to make at home. Old Rosie Scrumpy is a bit of a favourite for me and nothing like the usual range available.

 

[Chookers]

So what exactly do I have to do to pasteurize a bottle of cider... I have read it before on these forums but Im now having trouble locating the exact thread where I read it.

I am going to carb two bottles one glass and one PET so I can monitor the pressure, Im thinking I will add some more Apple Juice in this experiment.. and possibly some sugar to get it to the right sg... I dont know what it is at the moment, but I will check it tomorrow.

 

[Fossey]

I wait until the test bottle is really hard then put the batch into the dishwasher.
I choose the dishwasher setting with the hottest temp and run the cycle. My dishwasher claims its intensive cycle is 70 deg (gets up to about 40-50 when full of bottled cider) and runs for 2hrs 15 mins.
The lower the temp, the longer you have to run it for.

Otherwise... carefully...
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

 

[JDW81]

(gets up to about 40-50 when full of bottled cider) and runs for 2hrs 15 mins.

I'd be very careful with only getting to those temps. While it will probably knock off most of the yeast running for that long, I'd be trying to get it a bit higher just to be on the safe side. I'd be aiming for a minimum of 70. The article you linked suggests 190 fahrenheit which ~87 celsius. If you can pasteurise at those temps you can be sure it has worked.

My 2c.

JD

 

[Fossey]

I'd be very careful with only getting to those temps. While it will probably knock off most of the yeast running for that long, I'd be trying to get it a bit higher just to be on the safe side. I'd be aiming for a minimum of 70. The article you linked suggests 190 fahrenheit which ~87 celsius. If you can pasteurise at those temps you can be sure it has worked.

My 2c.

JD

Agreed but I have over 150 x 500mL bottles of homebrew cider that were pasteurised this way - one batch stopped at about 1030 gravity, a real freight train fermentation too - that have been stopped.

Having said that, my temps were taken with a cheap digital thermometer with a wired probe going into the dishwasher.

Once finished, the bottles were still too hot to touch even half an hour or so after the cycle finished. Next time I'll open a bottle as the cycle finishes and test the temp of the cider inside.

 

[MelbourneDave]

Next time I'll open a bottle as the cycle finishes and test the temp of the cider inside.

Be a little careful here. I'm not positive it will apply here but doesn't heat make pressure? I immediately thought of those pics you see of people's faces (or lack of) after they opened their cars radiator cap whilst still hot.