counter pressure filling discussion

[nosco]

Same here. To many ideas not enough money!!

Bee's Ghetto Blaster - Counter Pressure Bottle Fil: http://youtu.be/b7wRA5d6L8U

I made one on weekend. Works great.

 

[nosco]

Ps. I already use picnic taps so all I needed was a cheap racking cane and a bung. The racking cane fits right onto the picnic tap and the hole you put into the bung lets you purge o2 as you fill. Cheap and easy. The ones in the ebay ad are apita apparently.

 

[scon]

I use one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQg8Qb3OS7U



Cost about $16 and you can use them as a carbonator cap or as a counter pressure filler - I've even used them with a silicone bung to fill growlers which worked well.

 

[Tahoose]

Beauty, was looking at these last week but they were 55 GBP.

 

[chubbytaxman]

I use one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQg8Qb3OS7U



Cost about $16 and you can use them as a carbonator cap or as a counter pressure filler - I've even used them with a silicone bung to fill growlers which worked well.

Hey scon,

Where did you pick that up from?

Looks the goods.

chubby

 

[thuperman]

Hey scon,

Where did you pick that up from?

Looks the goods.

chubby

I believe they are the Keg King ones? Page 7 of 75 in their price list pdf.

These look great. I was discussing them with Mitch before. I have a couple questions that I'm hoping someone can help me with.

Can they be used for glass (750mL screw top or crown seal) bottles? Is there a way to make them work with glass or an alternative similar product?

Is there a way to prevent the frothing (as seen in the video) after removing the cap (so that I can fill multiple bottles in quick succession) or do I just need to be patient?

Cheers!

 

[Blind Dog]

I went the bung, cork, picnic tap ghetto CPBF because I was told the carbonation caps don't work with glass by the HBS I called. Was told they're too big for standard stubbies and longnecks. Never tried it, so maybe it was drivel and someone who has tried it can give a better answer. I can say that the ghetto CPBF works like a charm, can be used on any size bottle, is cheap and easy to use, and fills with only a smidge of foam (chill the beer and bottles overnight at 3C or thereabouts).

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Even if the CPBF or ghetto versions could fit a glass bottle, surely people are not that silly??? Can just see the glass fragments hitting children or animals nearby, sure the glass has some pressure rating but without proper relief protection and the unknown condition of bottles/imperfections, the risk is far too great.

 

[scon]

For fitting smaller bottles or larger things like growlers I just get a silicone bung of the right size, put the tube through it and fill burping the bung as I go. Yep, you get some foaming and it's not perfect but for $20 or so it's great. And yep, I believe it's the keg king one.

 

[thuperman]

Even if the CPBF or ghetto versions could fit a glass bottle, surely people are not that silly??? Can just see the glass fragments hitting children or animals nearby, sure the glass has some pressure rating but without proper relief protection and the unknown condition of bottles/imperfections, the risk is far too great.

I have wondered the same thing.

For fitting smaller bottles or larger things like growlers I just get a silicone bung of the right size, put the tube through it and fill burping the bung as I go. Yep, you get some foaming and it's not perfect but for $20 or so it's great. And yep, I believe it's the keg king one.

This sounds like the equivalent of the keg king carb cap but would fit glass (assuming the right size bung).

My main beef with plastic is that it won't stay cold at a mate's party like glass will. If I have to drink from the bottle, I'd rather it be a longneck than a 1.25L plastic Coke bottle.

 

[Crouch]

The carbing caps from KegKing will not work on anything other then a regular twist top soda or PET bottle.

I would not be concerned about excess pressure using a ghetto CPBF (to the point where bottles are exploding whilst filling), were not dealing with that much force when bottling ... surely.

 

[leighaus]

I have flow control taps and a growler filler. I can fill my glass growler with only 1cm max of head no issues, just start it slow then ramp it up...

I do need to clean my beer lines though and that method seems pretty good.. The pressure spray bottle is a little more fiddly.

 

[nosco]

It will stop filling when the pressure gets to a certain point. You have to release pressure to keep going. You have to have pressure to stop it foaming up.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I have wondered the same thing.


My main beef with plastic is that it won't stay cold at a mate's party like glass will. If I have to drink from the bottle, I'd rather it be a longneck than a 1.25L plastic Coke bottle.

Off topic but the reason glass appears colder than plastic is that you are transmitting heat from your hand into the glass far easier than through plastic which is a better insulator.

All things equal beer in PET should keep colder than in glass. Its the cold feeling on the hand which leads people to think its colder and tradition as to why beer still comes in glass.

 

[thuperman]

I have flow control taps and a growler filler. I can fill my glass growler with only 1cm max of head no issues, just start it slow then ramp it up...

I do need to clean my beer lines though and that method seems pretty good.. The pressure spray bottle is a little more fiddly.

Ah, Leigh. A) I should have bought one when I got my 650's from AIH, or B.) I should have bought the spare lot off you when you posted them for sale.

 

[thuperman]

Off topic but the reason glass appears colder than plastic is that you are transmitting heat from your hand into the glass far easier than through plastic which is a better insulator.

All things equal beer in PET should keep colder than in glass. Its the cold feeling on the hand which leads people to think its colder and tradition as to why beer still comes in glass.

This makes perfect sense. I have never thought too much about it. I guess the only remaining issue would be that a 1.25L bottle would warm up due to the longer time required to drink it. Solution: use 600mL bottles.

 

[wereprawn]

Off topic but the reason glass appears colder than plastic is that you are transmitting heat from your hand into the glass far easier than through plastic which is a better insulator.

All things equal beer in PET should keep colder than in glass. Its the cold feeling on the hand which leads people to think its colder and tradition as to why beer still comes in glass.

True. And here is an interesting vid on the subject for those who are interested.

Edit- vid not about beer.

 

[Black n Tan]

Even if the CPBF or ghetto versions could fit a glass bottle, surely people are not that silly??? Can just see the glass fragments hitting children or animals nearby, sure the glass has some pressure rating but without proper relief protection and the unknown condition of bottles/imperfections, the risk is far too great.

I have a morebeer CPBF and believe the risk is very very low. The Morebeer CPBF uses a stopper. For starters you set the pressure of the reg and typically you use a t-connector so it is set to your seeing pressure. I start with 12psi (serving pressure of my beer) which is a mere 2.5V in a bottle (no risk of exploding bottle there). If the pressure it set higher then the beer will not flow and the stopper get pushed up to relieve the pressure (and you get covered in beer as a warning never to do it again). There is no warning of any such risk in the manual and this is an american company (we know how litigious the USA is).

 

[Blind Dog]

Even if the CPBF or ghetto versions could fit a glass bottle, surely people are not that silly??? Can just see the glass fragments hitting children or animals nearby, sure the glass has some pressure rating but without proper relief protection and the unknown condition of bottles/imperfections, the risk is far too great.

[SIZE=medium]Why would using a homemade CPBF be riskier than priming and bottling in glass? You can’t have the pressure dialled up above normal serving pressures or you end up with foam and nothing else. Plus you relieve pressure as you go with either a small hole drilled through the bung or simply pushing the side of the bung away from the bottle. Personally I make sure the keg is properly carbed and pouring well before I try to bottle, then chill everything (kegs and bottles) to 2-3C or so overnight, burp the keg and dial the pressure down to 4psi to cut foaming to a minimum and then fill nice and slow. I can’t see the risk and after filling over a hundred stubbies so far, haven’t had an issue nor heard of one.[/SIZE]

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

[SIZE=medium]Why would using a homemade CPBF be riskier than priming and bottling in glass? You can’t have the pressure dialled up above normal serving pressures or you end up with foam and nothing else. Plus you relieve pressure as you go with either a small hole drilled through the bung or simply pushing the side of the bung away from the bottle. Personally I make sure the keg is properly carbed and pouring well before I try to bottle, then chill everything (kegs and bottles) to 2-3C or so overnight, burp the keg and dial the pressure down to 4psi to cut foaming to a minimum and then fill nice and slow. I can’t see the risk and after filling over a hundred stubbies so far, haven’t had an issue nor heard of one.[/SIZE]

I can think of a few reasons:

1. Regulator diaphragm fails and overpressurises, blowing the glass.
2. User-error overpressurises, blowing the glass.
3. Glass has imperfection or weak point which means it blows at transfer pressure.

I agree that there are risks with priming in glass etc, but that's not the context of this thread nor was I comparing it to priming. Was simply inferring that one should only CPBF into plastic, especially if they are new to kegging/brewing.

 

[sp0rk]

[SIZE=medium]Why would using a homemade CPBF be riskier than priming and bottling in glass? You can’t have the pressure dialled up above normal serving pressures or you end up with foam and nothing else.[/SIZE]

The standard practise for using a CPBF is to fill at 10-20kpa above what you serve at, so you are bottling at a higher pressure than what the dissolved co2 is at
Bottling at a LOWER pressure ends up with foam and nothing else

 

[Blind Dog]

We clearly have different systems / experiences. I use my homemade CPBF at 4psi or less, have even used it with the gas off if I'm just filling a couple of bottles. Works perfectly - no foam, minimal loss of CO2, and can fill a case of stubbies quick enough that it's not a chore, although it's usually just a 6pack or 2. It is all done cold which probably helps. Only time I've done it at serving pressure (12psi/85kpa) all I got was foam so Ive never tried it at higher than normal pressure. From all I've read /seen on simple homemade CPBFs as per the OP, using them at low pressure is the norm.

The standard practise for using a CPBF is to fill at 10-20kpa above what you serve at, so you are bottling at a higher pressure than what the dissolved co2 is at
Bottling at a LOWER pressure ends up with foam and nothing else

 

[Kodos]

I usually CPF at lower than serving pressure (50-60kpa), with very little foaming. Keeping the fill rate slow and the bottle cold limits foaming to almost nothing.

Beer bottles are made to handle pressure higher than filling pressure, and most fillers that I've used have pressure relief valves anyway.

If the pressure was to get up to the 3+ volumes where the bottles approach their limit, the bung would pop first.

That said, I can understand safety concerns when dealing with gas and it always required concentration and care.

 

[fattox]

I use one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQg8Qb3OS7U



Cost about $16 and you can use them as a carbonator cap or as a counter pressure filler - I've even used them with a silicone bung to fill growlers which worked well.

Hey Scon,

How did you rig it with the bung? I've been looking at something like this, and because all 3 of my growlers are different (one is a standard screw top, two have locking lids but one is a stainless keg king one and the other is glass with a ceramic lid) I need something non-destructive when it comes to filling my growlers. Any pics would be of great help!