Coopers Longneck pressure rating? Carb level for hard ginger beer?

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terminal2k

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If they tell you they can take more pressure than that, and you lose an eye, they could be up for a lawsuit. So I'm not suprised at all that they don't recommend higher levels. They even alluded to this in their response referencin insurance.

Even if they did testing on the bottles straight out of the factory, they can't guarantee the same strength on the bottles once they no longer control them
 

Nick the Knife

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If they tell you they can take more pressure than that, and you lose an eye, they could be up for a lawsuit. So I'm not suprised at all that they don't recommend higher levels. They even alluded to this in their response referencin insurance.

Even if they did testing on the bottles straight out of the factory, they can't guarantee the same strength on the bottles once they no longer control them
@terminal2k I understand what you're saying but I thin either you've misunderstood me or I've miscommunicated.

My concern with Cooper is this and for the purposes of simplicity lets assume we're speaking about the brand new glass bottles they are selling through LHB stores, which although identical to their own commercially used bottles are sold SPECIFICALLY knowing that home brewers will be using them.

1. Why do they have zero information with these bottles regarding their maximum recommended pressure? As in lieu of this home brewers have to do - exactly what I did, GUESS.

As mentioned this is standard on just about any product you buy where in it's normal use going beyond certain limits could bring danger or problems for the consumer. e.g temperature guidelines on bakeware, weight ratings on car jacks/stands, chairs etc.

It could be simply stating these bottles have a recommended maximum priming pressure of 3.0vol CO2 at 20oC. So why do they not do that? Thats bodgy and causes problems like THIS thread as it seems the entire AHB community, and they don't come a lot more knowledgeable than @MHB - felt they'd surely be fine for well above this - saying based on his expertise that 5vol at 40c would be fine.

And yet Coopers when forced (and they were forced, it was hardly easy info to get) stated 40% less! Massive difference.

The conditon of the bottles is really not relevant for the recommended pressure rating - again ALL products have the factor of wear/normal usage - on them and manage to rate. They could easily just say scratched/damaged bottles should be discarded - but again they say nothing.

2. I don't want them to tell me more or less pressure - I just want to know WHAT the recommended pressure is. If I or any consumer chooses to go above this - that'll be our issue and I'm pretty sure they'd have zero liability IF they told us BELOW what we went with was fine.

For at present they're actually very liable for any injury that misuse of their bottles may cause - as consumers have no way of knowing whats safe - and have to guess. Thats the very definition of public liability - something easy they could have done that due to it's absence caused injury &/or damages to consumers.

3. As to what the actual maximum pressure is - obviously they know - it's a bottle, and would vary but same with all products but they know that testing as shown that at 4vol 40c 95% of bottles burst. SO this is the maximum pressure rating, but they don't put this out to the public and instead they give a safer lower figure as the maximum RECOMMENDED pressure.

Saying things like 'read between the lines' on a company email and in lieu of providing proper info is unacceptable and pretty ******* amateurish.

And to top it off in this thread alone 2 people have now contacted Coopers and been told 2 different recommended max's 3.2 and 3.0 vol. So they can't even be consistant on that.

Am I being narky? Maybe but again this is not rocket science, you're selling a product for a set purpose - tell people how to properly use it, so they don't have to guess.
 

terminal2k

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I've never actually seen coopers bottles for sale. Every home brew shop I've come across has mangove jacks bottles, which have nothing on the packaging about recommended co2 volumes. Can you point me to someone who does sell bottles with this inforation available on the box?
Why do they have zero information with these bottles regarding their maximum recommended pressure?
because the moment they do this, they open themselves up to liability if a bottle fails with this pressure

you're selling a product for a set purpose

Yeah, the set purpose is to use with coopers extract kits and carbonation drops. I would assume the bottles are more than capable of taking the pressure from the carb drops. So you're actually using the bottles for a non intended purpose.
 

Nick the Knife

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I've never actually seen coopers bottles for sale. Every home brew shop I've come across has mangove jacks bottles, which have nothing on the packaging about recommended co2 volumes. Can you point me to someone who does sell bottles with this inforation available on the box?

because the moment they do this, they open themselves up to liability if a bottle fails with this pressure



Yeah, the set purpose is to use with coopers extract kits and carbonation drops. I would assume the bottles are more than capable of taking the pressure from the carb drops. So you're actually using the bottles for a non intended purpose.
1) info on boxes - I've no idea feel free to DYOR - I've not bought others so I'm not that worried about them - as stated very common with most products designed to withstand certain forces e.g temps, weights etc.
2) WIth all due respect, thats not how it works in a court of law - in fact have you considered the logic of what you say? Completely backwards. The maker rates so consumers KNOW what is safe and how to use safely - otherwise they're guessing. If the consumer goes past that good luck proving the maker was at fault. The maker would ONLY be liable if the product failed at a level BELOW what it was rated - and then under Australia COnsumer Law they'd be liable - but that the case regardless of if they rate or not.
3) With all due respect their glass bottles or even the PET ones if you like are not sold to use with their kits - don't talk utter nonsense.
 

Feldon

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This doesn’t really answer NickThe Knife’s OP, but I thought I’d post it anyway because its interesting and adds to the mix. And because I finally found what I thought might be an answer (but isn’t) on the Coopers forum. I remembered reading about it years ago and finally found the thread. It was a question about safe weight of glass bottles for packaging beer.

Back in 2015 a poster on the forum posed this question:

“For several months I have been collecting Cooper's glass long necks (mainly the pale ale). While sorting my gear out for my next batch to bottle. I noticed that some of the long necks have a DO NOT REFILL mark on the base of the bottle.
I'm hoping they are still good to use. Any thoughts?
I specifically collected the Cooper's ones as I have read several times that the glass is thicker and are good to use over and over again.”


In reply PB2 (a Coopers employee and brewer) said:

“They should still weigh more than 1/2 a kilo when empty - goal weight is 525g. So nothing has changed there. However, the bottle supplier has insisted that the words "NO REFILL" should be added to these bottles as they are not prepared to guarantee the bottles when used by third parties. Fair enough, I guess, when one considers the level of mistreatment a bottle may go through in the course of its life.”

I weighed one of my old pre-“NO REFILL” Cooper’s bottles and it weighed 562g. One of the newer “”NO REFILL” bottles weighed 496g.

Original thread here: Cooper's Commercial Long Necks
 

Nick the Knife

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Morning @Feldon ,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I believe that would have been the period that @clarkejw referred to earlier when Coopers seemed to also change the thickness of their bottles. Is interesting though.

INterestingly - when I asked Coopers WHY they didn't provide any info/recommendation on recommended maximum pressure with their brand new bottles sold in LHB stores - I got no reply, previously had replied back within a day.

Thats pretty telling to me that they know they should have.

:)
 

Nick the Knife

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Just as a post-script - rather than rebottling I've moved all the bottles to plastic storage containers - with padding etc in between each of the bottles to a level to hopefully avert multi-bottle losses if one happens to go.

I corresponded with Coopers quite a bit and I asked them very specifically 4-5 times why they did not with their brand new bottles provide any guidance at time of sale (ie with the product) as to their recommended max priming pressure - they completely ignored the question, like they replied back each time saying. We recommend 3.0vol etc - but would not say why they had to be contacted to get this info.

Read into that what you will but it's pretty telling to me - when a question is not answered at all that many times. :)
 

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