Continuing Rant Thread - Get it Off Ya Chest here

[mtb]

Not sure outsourcing will solve the problem by itself.
The Victorian Myki was outsourced and what happened?
"OOOh! We've run out of money. Can we please have another couple of hundred million$$"
What's needed is properly specced contracts with less wriggle room and milestones with real funding implications.
No delivery = no money, or a significant penalty.
And no bonuses for dragging a project full of shortcuts and compromises over the line on time.

Outsourcing is a part of the solution - not all of it. I agree with you completely, properly specced contracts are crucial and they are often lacking in specificity - which is a fault of both sides really.
Outsourcing simply allows for tangible penalty. Internally run govt projects can fail spectacularly and all it does is allow political parties to sledge one another about it, whereas a commercial entity can lose millions if it fails to deliver.

 

[gap]

What we need is a positive leader, a leader with at least 100 positive policies, and who puts people first. People like me!

This should be in the continuing jokes thread.

 

[goomboogo]

I'm aboard Bill's big bus of positivity. I'm positive he cares about me the same as all the other people he puts first. Politicians are like everyone else in that they put themselves first. The difference is the enormous gap between them and those they put second.

 

[manticle]

Who knows what hypersensitive religious minority weirdo you may tick off?

I wouldn't bake a paedophile cake either

 

[Brewnicorn]

I guess you cant blame bakeries for being on high alert in light of recent events. Who knows what hypersensitive litigious minority group you may tick off with your baked goods.

https://aclu-co.org/court-rules-bakery-illegally-discriminated-against-gay-couple/

I worked at a law firm many years ago and the yarn used to be the Americans were only following the English lead, that the poms were far more litigious.
Given the yank saturation in Australian culture I wonder if we’d ever see that here? More of that here*
That said we elect the lawmakers. I say if the only reason the bakery didn’t sell those folks a cake is cos they’re gay then **** the bakery. I mean seriously?
People who dress differently, people of different religion, different colour... who else is fair game?

 

[Stouter]

Outsourcing is a part of the solution - not all of it. I agree with you completely, properly specced contracts are crucial and they are often lacking in specificity - which is a fault of both sides really.
Outsourcing simply allows for tangible penalty. Internally run govt projects can fail spectacularly and all it does is allow political parties to sledge one another about it, whereas a commercial entity can lose millions if it fails to deliver.

All sorts of problems like that over this end. Like a Children's Hospital which was promised to be opened in 2015.

"The former Barnett government last year confirmed it was paying $500,000 a month to contractor Capella Parking for the bays that are sitting empty at the yet-to-be-opened facility.

At the time, former health minister John Day explained the cost was unavoidable and flowed from a contract the government signed with the parking operator about four years ago.

But during a budget estimates hearing at the WA Parliament this week it was revealed that figure was actually closer to $700,000 per month."

That's just the bloody car park for the place! The place as it sits unopened has an estimated $6m/month cost.

Last I've heard the government was looking getting some $$'s back through the courts.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...spital-legal-stoush-with-john-holland/8804440

Still, no matter how much they get back, and how much the lawyers make out of it, hasn't helped many sick kids over the last few years it was supposed to be operational.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

The problem with NBN is that the top tiers are...wait for it......wait for it....not IT guys.....but....LAWYERS

Some of the contracts NBN have are 1000's of pages.

Here is an example of how ******* stupid it is

Take the NBN satellite. There are 3 players. NBN, Viasat ( the builder ) & Erricsson ( Network managers for the sat ) all because NBN allowed suck a stupid contract setup

Now, NBN are not allowed to talk to Viasat about issues, they first must talk to Erricsson, who then determin if they need to talk to Viasat. If they dont feel a need, they dont. If via sat want to talk to NBN...have to go thru Ericsson

Can anyone see any issue here ?

 

[homebrewnewb]

yep its a microcosm for my issue, three players - three song books, three different outcomes, none of them good; no connection for me, no income for the rsp, and a black eye for the nbn...

@mtb re outsourcing, what do you mean IBM is banned from bidding for State government contracts? Mind you these guys internationally have been running a loss for the last 22 quarters i think

not sure if outsourcing is a winner either - there is a better way that is for sure.

 

[mtb]

yep its a microcosm for my issue, three players - three song books, three different outcomes, none of them good; no connection for me, no income for the rsp, and a black eye for the nbn...

@mtb re outsourcing, what do you mean IBM is banned from bidding for State government contracts? Mind you these guys internationally have been running a loss for the last 22 quarters i think

not sure if outsourcing is a winner either - there is a better way that is for sure.

Consider if IBM were replaced with an internally run government project team on that particular debacle. They'd keep their jobs and all.

 

[Dave70]

I worked at a law firm many years ago and the yarn used to be the Americans were only following the English lead, that the poms were far more litigious.
Given the yank saturation in Australian culture I wonder if we’d ever see that here? More of that here*
That said we elect the lawmakers. I say if the only reason the bakery didn’t sell those folks a cake is cos they’re gay then **** the bakery. I mean seriously?
People who dress differently, people of different religion, different colour... who else is fair game?

It wasn't. It conflicted with the owners religious beliefs, and they apparently provided numerous alternative businesses who would be willing to accommodate. To my libertarian brain, this was just bloody minded virtue signaling by a gay couple intent on bullying and punishing a small business publicly - admittedly, this is at odds with Colorado's actual public accommodations law. In my opinion, if you want to open a cake shop that only bakes wedding cakes for gay couples, you should be free to do so, ultimately the success or failure of your business will reflect that decision.

The actual case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission

 

[wynnum1]

NBN. oh,,,,,,,,,my,,,,,,,,,,,,god.......
So its going to get worse, shittier, slower, failings, non profitable, massive losses, unless we all get slugged much higher prices for something that will never work properly? Is that it? So Libs scrap the labor plan to do it (the Liberal party way) substandard for cheaper then its all going to cost more than the original Labour plan only its a failing piece of ****. Then blame it all on the Labor party.

Can Australian politics actually get worse? I hate to think that's the progressive direction but seems that way.
Train wreck? with a snow ball effect.

Under Kevin Rudd's NBN plan it would have been fully finished by the day they got voted out so it seems his plan had some slight problems also how many households have landline phone service mobile is getting cheap so NBN to homes is obsolete.

 

[mtb]

how many households have landline phone service

Most of them? Whether they have it actually connected is a different story.. but the cabling is there

 

[manticle]

It wasn't. It conflicted with the owners religious beliefs, and they apparently provided numerous alternative businesses who would be willing to accommodate. To my libertarian brain, this was just bloody minded virtue signaling by a gay couple intent on bullying and punishing a small business publicly - admittedly, this is at odds with Colorado's actual public accommodations law. In my opinion, if you want to open a cake shop that only bakes wedding cakes for gay couples, you should be free to do so, ultimately the success or failure of your business will reflect that decision.

The actual case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission

It was a point of law, not virtue. If it were me, I'd tell the bakery to shove it and find somewhere else but it wasn't me.

 

[wynnum1]

Most of them? Whether they have it actually connected is a different story.. but the cabling is there

Would be interesting to see what they have to pay to have there installation network on the streets as the private networks had to pay .

 

[Dave70]

It was a point of law, not virtue. If it were me, I'd tell the bakery to shove it and find somewhere else but it wasn't me.

And the freedom to take your business elsewhere further illustrates my point. The free market will regulate discriminatory behavior far better than any piece of government legislation.

 

[manticle]

Sure and I'm in favour of the concept. However the law was pre-existing, clearly broken and legal consequences applied. It's pretty cut and dried in this instance. Might be different if the discussion were around making new legislation but it isn't.

News headline summarised as 'Man breaks law, prosecuted, fined'.

 

[Dave70]

Sure and I'm in favour of the concept. However the law was pre-existing, clearly broken and legal consequences applied. It's pretty cut and dried in this instance. Might be different if the discussion were around making new legislation but it isn't.

News headline summarised as 'Man breaks law, prosecuted, fined'.

Then the law truly is an ***.
If I was a sports car driving lawyer, I argue that that somewhat tap dances all over the first amendment, in particular the free exercise of religion. But I'm not.
However, if the US Department of Justice felt the need to stick its beak in, I'd say its not as cut and dry as your headline suggests.

I think its only fair that the couple and their wedding guests be legally forced to eat every last crumb of the cake that has caused such a brouhaha.
Prepared, lovingly, by the the cake shop owner whose business they basically ruined.
Here you go boys, enjoy your cake..

 

[manticle]

If you changed the situation to AU and debated potential upcoming legislation, it would make more sense.

Say for example, marriage equality laws pass here, should every church be forced to perform the ceremony or should they have right of refusal?

I'd argue the latter (partially motivated by the desire to make transparent exactly how outdated and irrelevant they are).

US case above does look pretty cut and dried, turned into a pointless newsfest by the anti- PC brigade who are just as self righteous and eternally outraged as the PC brigade.

**** 'em all

 

[Brewnicorn]

And the freedom to take your business elsewhere further illustrates my point. The free market will regulate discriminatory behavior far better than any piece of government legislation.

Can’t argue with that. I just think discrimination generally is a province for more bloody minded than fair minded folks. Like you I agree free market and all that take your business elsewhere and tell the bakery to get ****** to boot. I don’t mind either solution, but my original point in part was the gay couple for better or worse are using the tools made available to them by the legislature. As if organising a wedding isn’t stressful enough they took that on. Hardly good judgement.
Signalling/bullying... those observations are a two way street, no?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

If you changed the situation to AU and debated potential upcoming legislation, it would make more sense.

Say for example, marriage equality laws pass here, should every church be forced to perform the ceremony or should they have right of refusal?

I'd argue the latter (partially motivated by the desire to make transparent exactly how outdated and irrelevant they are).

US case above does look pretty cut and dried, turned into a pointless newsfest by the anti- PC brigade who are just as self righteous and eternally outraged as the PC brigade.

**** 'em all

I agree with your previous comment the gay couple should have just given a bit of verbal and moved on, as for the churches I believe that they will be able to refuse to perform the matrimonial ceremony, but it is going to be interesting to observe if the HRC pulls its head in, or whether it will challenge the churches right of refusal.
As with the gay couple and the cake, it was it was the CRC which took on the case on behalf of the said couple.