Cloudy Wort

[jimmy01]

Help please

Just finished my second AG and having trouble getting the wort to clear during lautering.

I am trying a Pale Ale recipe from Dave Millers' " Brewing the World's Great Beers"

Started the first brew 2 weeks ago. Despite recyling the wort thru the eski, the wort remained very cloudy. Bottled last week and although I haven't tasted the brew yet, it is very cloudy in the bottle. Ended up with a fairly weak pitching OG as well (1.033).

Thought I may not have had a deep enough grain bed, and maybe didn't recycle enough. So for 2nd attempt today, I downsized to a smaller eski and also increased the amount of grain and water. However, I still had a very cloudy wort despite recyling the wort thru the lauter tun for 50 mins. Wort did clear during sparging (another 50 mins) and I ended up with a better pitching OG (1.040), although still a bit low. Temperature control seemed to be within the range recommended (64-66 C)

My lauter tun is a 25l eski with a slotted copper manifold. Purchased my grain from a Brisbane HBS who crushed it for me.

What have I done wrong?


Jimmy

 

[Darren]

Nothing probably. I would recommend you slow down your recircutation. I suspect you are filling a jug then pouring back on top. Each time you shut and open the tap it disrupts the grain bed. Best to pour off at a trickle rather than full boar and not turn the tap of between transfers (two jugs will stop you from amking a mess. Pouring onto a plate (not the best as it will sink) or similar will also help to keep the bed intact. I think everyone gets cloudy run-off to start. Main problem is big chunks.
cheers
Darren

 

[jimmy01]

Thanks Darren

I was using a jug, although I didn't turn the tap on & off. Will try reducing the flow.

Do you think its worth adding some finings to clear the brew? I used to use finings with the kits at first , but gave that up as it didn't seem to make much difference and the beer was clear enough anyway.

 

[Darren]

Secondary fermenter anf finings can't hurt (will probably help)

 

[Ross]

Jimmy,

Have you watched a few AG's being brewed or are you flying blind? If the latter, you're more than welcome to come & watch a brew, over on the southside...

Mainly brew in the week, but also the occaisional w/e....

 

[jimmy01]

Hi Ross

I'm flying blind. Have read a bit on this site and other sites and from a number of books. Would like to watch a brew. Do you brew during the day or in the evening?

During the week is a bit difficult for me as I work Mon-Fri. Have you got a brew day planned?

thanks J
immy

 

[Ross]

Hi Ross

I'm flying blind. Have read a bit on this site and other sites and from a number of books. Would like to watch a brew. Do you brew during the day or in the evening?

During the week is a bit difficult for me as I work Mon-Fri. Have you got a brew day planned?

thanks J
immy

[post="86682"][/post]​

Jimmy,

Brewing Tuesday, but during the day - need the light, unfortunately...

I'll try & remember to post when I next do a w/e, but it maybe a while...

 

[Bilph]

Help please

Just finished my second AG and having trouble getting the wort to clear during lautering.

I am trying a Pale Ale recipe from Dave Millers' " Brewing the World's Great Beers"

Started the first brew 2 weeks ago. Despite recyling the wort thru the eski, the wort remained very cloudy. Bottled last week and although I haven't tasted the brew yet, it is very cloudy in the bottle. Ended up with a fairly weak pitching OG as well (1.033).

Thought I may not have had a deep enough grain bed, and maybe didn't recycle enough. So for 2nd attempt today, I downsized to a smaller eski and also increased the amount of grain and water. However, I still had a very cloudy wort despite recyling the wort thru the lauter tun for 50 mins. Wort did clear during sparging (another 50 mins) and I ended up with a better pitching OG (1.040), although still a bit low. Temperature control seemed to be within the range recommended (64-66 C)

My lauter tun is a 25l eski with a slotted copper manifold. Purchased my grain from a Brisbane HBS who crushed it for me.

What have I done wrong?


Jimmy

[post="86673"][/post]​

Depends a bit on what you mean by cloudy as well.
My wort never gets crystal clear during the sparge; it always retains some cloudiness. I just ensure I get the wort clear of sediment. A 50 minute sparge should get pretty close.
Efficient chilling after the boil and racking should clean up the rest of it. How clear did your first brew finish up?

Edit: Ignore that last question. I just re-read your post.

 

[Dunkel_Boy]

My new setup I've only run two beers through, both runoffs have been cloudy, however as the above have said the important thing is that there are no chunks of grain. You definitely don't want husks or chunks in the runoff, which is technically what 'clear' means. For the record, both beers have turned out very very clear (no filtering like Ross does ), despite having quite cloudy runoff. Perhaps it's the malts I've used (carapils and cara-helles).

 

[jimmy01]

Thanks Bilph

I don't have any husks or chunks in the runoff. Just cloudy so that you can't see thru it if you put it in a glass. Maybe I have misunderstood what clear means in the recipes I have read.

Will wait and see if these 2 brews clear in the bottle. My malt was Australian Pale Malt with a touch of Caramalt

regards
Jimmy

 

[Bilph]

Jimmy,
I never expect too much clearing in the bottle.
I normally rack and condition brews for 2-3 weeks after primary, so pretty much all of the clearing post ferment is done there.
Maybe look at your chilling. I found a significant difference in clarity when I got a decent chiller.
Another left-field suggestion may be the yeast. Which are you using? Some of course take an age to settle.

 

[jimmy01]

Hi Bilph

The Weast is White Labs Burtons Ale Yeast WLP023. Used for both brews

 

[Barry]

Good Day
Did you check to see if the mash was fully converted? It could be starch haze.

 

[Stagger]

I think you are spot on Barry, that would be my guess, jimmy how long did you mash for? as Barry has stated if it's not fully converted you will get a starch haze and it will be there to stay.


Stagger

 

[nonicman]

Just to add another, I'm not having a lot of luck with the clarity at the moment. It started after we moved and I had to leave the pond pump at the old unit as it wasn't mine, so at the moment I have trouble getting a good chilling happening. Use to chill to around 40-50C with tap water through the immersion chiller, then used the pump to push iced water through which would get it to pitching temp. Since moving I've been placing the fermenter in the freezer at around 40C and waiting a few hours (4-6 or even over night) before pitching. Beers are not that clear. Getting a pond pump before the next weekend. Before I had chilling under control I had the same problem with clarity, hence poor chilling is suspect. Run off clarity has not appeared to a big factor in final product clarity if a respectable cold break is achieved in my limited experience.
This is assuming as Barry has suggested that you're getting full conversion (iodine test).

 

[pint of lager]

Another possibility is you are not boiling hard enough.

My first few brews suffered from haze, as someone suggested a very slow boil closer to a simmer was sufficient. I tried all sorts of changes including all the already listed suggestions. Bought some iodine, recirculated slowly, used kettle and fermenter finings but nothing helped.

Turned out I wasn't boiling hard enough.

You want plenty of surface movement, with about 2.5cm between the troughs and peaks on the wort surface.

When recirculating, I try to never turn the tap on and off, the first 20 litres (45 litre batch size) is recirculated, then I run off. The runoff has some cloudiness which clears about third to halfway through the sparge.

 

[Peter Wadey]

Hmmm,
It's interesting reading what others say about recirc. and cloudiness of runoff.

I confess. I open the mash tun tap full tilt. Fill up a 1 litre boilproof jug. Return that to the top of the bed via a saucer. Do that 3-4 times and this is what I get



If I was a yeast cell I'd have an orgasm as soon as I caught sight of this!

I don't use a fine stainless braid or a grain bag.

3-4 litres in a 23 litre batch. That's it.

The 1st litre of runoff is very cloudy - that's the flour coming through, as well as some grits etc that made it through/ under the lauter plate. After that it gets progressively better until by about 3-3.5 itres it's time to add the downtube, hose clamp and direct flow to the bottom of the kettle.

Jimmy,
You said you had poor extraction. Either:
1) the sugar is still in the tun,
2) the unconverted starch is still in the tun or
3) you've washed the starch into the kettle.

I'm with Barry (3).

Suggest you revisit your crush and mash pH. Then move on to getting good hot & cold breaks as suggested by others.

Happy brewing,
Pete

PS Hope the picture attachment works

 

[jimmy01]

Thanks Everyone


I am mashing for 2 hours according to Dave Millers recipe.

The cloudiness is there pre-boil so I think it definitely has something to do with the mash, so I will also try boiling harder

I haven't checked pH of mash or sparge water, so I will do this next brew. Any suggestions where to get pH strips? I have tried a few pool shops without any luck.


I also wondered if my grain crush was OK. I bought this from a HBS owner who does do a bit if AG himself, so I hope the crush is OK. Will take a photo of remaining grain and post it.

Peter W - looking at your wort makes me envious. I defintely had a problem with the mash. Mine is more like brtth. No lumps or husks just really cloudy.


Thanks again everyone



Jimmy

 

[Darren]

Chemical suppliers will have pH strips. They are quite expensive ($40 for 100) I can't remember the exact price. You can always cut them into three strips and then you get 300 (400 if you have steady hands).
I find the only thing that cleans up my sparge is to slow it down.
cheers
Darren