Cider questions

[SnailAle]

G'day guys,

Couple of hopefully quick apple cider questions. I recently got a press and was real keen to use some of my mates apples to create a cider. I assumed it would be as straight forward as replacing the mangrove jack apple concentrate water mix with real apple juice. I was at a home brew place the other day to grab yeast and a back sweetener and the guy there sorta crushed my dreams (pun intended). He was saying back sweetening would be hard and with fresh juice i would need to pasteurize to prevent wild yeasts which is almost impossible at a homebrew level.

I walked out without anything to back sweeten and drove the 4 hours home. I've been pretty bummed since wondering what the press is worth if this is the case.

Can anyone suggest how to approach these issues as in using fresh juice and back sweetening from real apples.

I appreciate any help.

Cheers fellas.

 

[blekk]

Pear juice is quite common as a back sweetener and can be added after primary to get the sweetness youre looking for. Failing that I dont see why you cant boil down the back sweetener (more pressed apple juice??), to a concentrate to kill any wild yeasts that may be present.

EDIT: Just read that youre wanting to use fresh pressed apple. In that case Id boil it down to kill any nasties or look at using campden.

 

[SnailAle]

Pear juice is quite common as a back sweetener and can be added after primary to get the sweetness youre looking for. Failing that I dont see why you cant boil down the back sweetener (more pressed apple juice??), to a concentrate to kill any wild yeasts that may be present.

EDIT: Just read that youre wanting to use fresh pressed apple. In that case Id boil it down to kill any nasties or look at using campden.

My initial idea was boil the fresh juice to kill anything in there and backsweeten with erythritol but was told that affects the quality and flavour of the juice.

 

[blekk]

Ive only used pear juice personally but what about racking into a secondary on an apple puree?

 

[onemorecell]

I had a heap of apples from the in-law's farm. Juiced them up in a friend's juicer (you're very lucky to have a press) and then added yeast to the juice. I used a Wyeast cider yeast.

From a shitton of apples, I got about 10L of juice at 1.070, fermented to 1.000 at 9.2%!

I added soda water when drinking to get the taste/alch % right, because I had no idea how much water to add before fermenting. Turned out a 2-1 ratio was pretty damn nice, but it was also great on it's own. Just very strong...

You don't need to backsweeten or do anything to kill any 'nasties'. Please don't boil your lovely fresh juice.

I'd question whether that home brew shop guy has ever made cider with advice like that, to be honest...

As for sweetening, if you want a sickly sweet cider, go buy it. If you want a delicious cider you can call your own, you're on the right track.

Tip for apples - if you have a spare fridge or 2, store the apples in there for a month or so. They will get much more juicy.

 

[gap]

You will destroy the fresh apple taste if you boil the juice.
I just ferment using enough of the cider yeast.

 

[peterlonz]

OK I though I had this stuff off pat.
I have made cider from Mangrove jack's kit backs sweetened with pear juice from Aldi.
So no need to boil anything in that case.
Plenty of posts here also suggesting fermenting from bought juice & from farm or supermarket.
But here some are suggesting you attempt with no pasteurising.?
To me that's just plain daft, remember pasteurising only requires 50 mins at 75 C .

 

[Ferg]

G'day guys,

Couple of hopefully quick apple cider questions. I recently got a press and was real keen to use some of my mates apples to create a cider. I assumed it would be as straight forward as replacing the mangrove jack apple concentrate water mix with real apple juice. I was at a home brew place the other day to grab yeast and a back sweetener and the guy there sorta crushed my dreams (pun intended). He was saying back sweetening would be hard and with fresh juice i would need to pasteurize to prevent wild yeasts which is almost impossible at a homebrew level.

I walked out without anything to back sweeten and drove the 4 hours home. I've been pretty bummed since wondering what the press is worth if this is the case.

Can anyone suggest how to approach these issues as in using fresh juice and back sweetening from real apples.

I appreciate any help.

Cheers fellas.

Easiest way is to back sweeten them with juice, bottle it and keep testing the bottles to get to your desired carbonation. Once carbonated chuck them in the dishwasher on a hot cycle and you're done. Pasteurising can be done if you think its worth the hassle. The juice needs to get to around 65 degrees from memory and its a trade off between time and temp - the higher the temp the less time required.
I just tend do let mine ferment out and drink it dry to be honest.

 

[onemorecell]

But here some are suggesting you attempt with no pasteurising.?
To me that's just plain daft, remember pasteurising only requires 50 mins at 75 C .

yes.

why is it daft? better to provide some sort of reasoning than just be condescending

have you ever tried it yourself or are you just theorising?

 

[huey]

Easiest way is to back sweeten them with juice, bottle it and keep testing the bottles to get to your desired carbonation. Once carbonated chuck them in the dishwasher on a hot cycle and you're done. Pasteurising can be done if you think its worth the hassle. The juice needs to get to around 65 degrees from memory and its a trade off between time and temp - the higher the temp the less time required.
I just tend do let mine ferment out and drink it dry to be honest.

I thought back sweetening happens after fermentation is finished? Or do you ferment it, then add the juice and bottle it, at which point a second fermentation sets in? And you stop that second fermentation in the dishwasher? Interesting idea!

 

[Ferg]

I thought back sweetening happens after fermentation is finished? Or do you ferment it, then add the juice and bottle it, at which point a second fermentation sets in? And you stop that second fermentation in the dishwasher? Interesting idea!

Yeah as you said, its the 'secondary' that you are stopping. Just fermenting it enough for carbonation.