Christmas Island Drownings.

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PistolPatch

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When I went, on my way to work, for my coffee this morning I saw the newspaper headlines about the drownings of the refugees on the Christmas Island shores. The pictures and headlines were compelling. I bought the newspaper, something I never do, and read it. Stuff like this is exciting and interesting news. It wakes us up and makes us feel a bit more alive. It should also be very disturbing but...

... usually most of us just wait for tomorrow's headlines.

We never really stop and think much do we? Whether it be in brewing or this tragedy we really never stop and think deeply for answers. We too often wait for someone else to do the thinking.

I haven't seen any TV footage of the above. For those of you who have seen TV footage, if it exists, I wonder if it makes you think or, like me buying the paper this morning, it just adds some excitement to the day?

I'm going to stop and think now about those people who died today. (It's easy to sympathise with those watching from the shores and I'm sure that you and I can see how these witnesses must have felt. Feeling helpless to help others I think is one of the worst feelings a real human being can have.)

We can get into politics as well to entertain our brains. For example, we could discuss for hours why the opposition rejected a government proposal to form a bi-partisan committee to deal with this. I could also tell you that my bloodline on both my maternal and paternal side goes back to the very early days of white settlement here in Australia but that I recognise that non-indigenous Australia as we know it today has actually been built by a myriad of minorities. I could also tell you that I actually admire boat people but I don't think about them as much as I should. (My morning coffee is about to increase in price from $3.80 to $4.00 next year. ****!)

I would also tell you that I have no easy answers on how to deal with these people desperately trying to escape to Australia. Their desperation and their way, too often failure, deserves real consideration though. While I bought coffee, they were dying to get here.

So, to the so many people who died on our Christmas Island shores, I don't know what to say about your life that could have been. If you were a baby, who knows what you might have done and experienced? Perhaps callously, I am a bit less disturbed by your deaths than by those of your elder siblings or parents. These elders must have gone through God knows what to get you babies on a boat.

For your elders seeing you babies being dashed to death 400 metres before your final destination is something I really can't bear forcing myself to slow down and really think about.

So, to those of you elders that did die trying to reach our shores of hope, all I can say is that I am very sorry you didn't get here. If, "good-willed," energy and intention is the requirement for getting to any heaven, then I think you and your babies will go straight there.

So, "Spot ya," from me,
Pat
 

Mobbee007

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PP that is awesome & I couldn't agree more
 

Peteoz77

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I'm not going to agree or disagree. I am going to mention a few things that I have experienced, some monies I have paid, and some things I have heard.

I came here from America. It cost me $800 USD round trip. When I came back it cost me $1300 Round trip, 3 months later. I fell in love, online with a beautiful Australian woman, and when I came back the second time, we got married. I applied for Permanent Residency, they took my $1600 and told me to come back after 2 years and see if they would let me stay. 2 Years and 7 months later, they agreed that my wife and I were truly in a loving relationship, and allowed me to stay. 2 years after that I was allowed to become a citizen.

Yes, I did get married, so I was allowed to stay. It only cost me $2900 for airfare and to apply to stay here. And that was only because i wanted to get a regular paying job and pay my taxes. If I had wanted to stay and work for cash, and if I were willing to take the chance, I could have just stayed and never paid the $1600. What i am saying is that if these "Asylum Seekers" wanted to get here, all they need to do is fly in (a LOT cheaper than the boats) and disappear. They would be pretty unfortunate to get caught... I believe MANY illegals do this.. and just never leave.

So, the question is, why do these "Asylum Seekers" ( I understand VERY few of them are actually fleeing political persecution) pay $10,000 (or $5,000 in this case) to try to sneak in. Why don't they just get on a plane, get off, and disappear? Like I said MANY do this, but the boats still keep coming...

OK, so none of my blabbing has much to do with these people who died. It has even LESS to do with Tony F***ING Abbot and his "We'll stop the boats" BS. But it is a pretty hard to understand why they still keep getting in crappy little boats and trying to sneak in.

My heart goes out to every one of the dead. My heart goes out to the Illegal Immigrants, be they "Asylum Seekers" or just honest folk trying to find a better way of life. I wish we would just let them come in, give them some assistance, and in a few years they would be working and paying taxes... We have a LOT of room here people.... We don't really need to put people into camps and hold them indefinitely. I say we tell every person who wants to come here to be honest, bring a passport, tell us why they really want to come, and bring them on board.

Maybe then they would stop spending a LOT of money to get on a shitty little boat and pray that they can sneak in alive... Maybe then they could stop telling lies about "Asylum Seeking" and just say "I want to come to Australia so I can provide a better life for me and my children". Maybe then we could all feel good about letting them stay rather than listening to Tony the mad monk going on about how horrible they are, and just accept them as people that want to work hard to cary our country further ahead, and enjoy our lucky country.
 

seemax

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Simply because it is either too difficult to get a visa or their home country refuses their departure.

Even if they made the flight to Australia, chances are immigration will pick them up and start asking questions to which they will struggle to answer and there is a high probability of being straight back home!
 

InCider

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Pete, and Patch, well said both of you.

I believe Pete that if the Aslyum Seekers (AS) were educated AND privileged enough to have a real identity in their country of origin it would increase their chances of being on an airliner over here. Free drinks before touching down in a capital city and disappearing into the ether. I asked a few local lads in Patong beach last week of they had been to Australia, or ever would. The replies where 'no' for the first question, and blank looks to the second. After further chit - chat I dropped the topic. It was clear that their world was so small, that apart from getting a scooter license, or renting a roadside stall, there was no chance of getting a passport (nor, concept of what is was), or even booking a ticket. But a few of them had facebook, which was pretty cool :) Lots of mobiles - who'd pay the cost of a landline if you didn't have to?

So in impoverished or 3rd world countries without access to all out our 1st first global comprehension of how stuff works and strong currency, it is just going to be more practical to jump a boat and sail to where you want to go. Old School style. Our indigenous people did, Cook did and they do. The world hasn't changed that much. :eek:

But back the AS. They were doing what they knew, and their is no doubt understood the risks. It's a tragedy, with an appalling death toll.

The only thing that gets my goat is the 'Nanny Staters' claiming the government was at fault as they did not locate the boat in a timely enough manner to prevent this happening. Like any government employee or the government itself wants that kind of blood on it's hands anyway.

The only greater tragedy this week was seeing the 'O' for Oprah on the Harbour Bridge. That really did my tits up. :angry:
 

white.grant

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This has really troubled me.

A good mate of mine drew a cartoon contrasting the two types of visitors Australia has had contrasting the O for Oprah with the Ohh I need help! He used an artistic simulacrum of the Opera house sails and the rocks of the cliff. The comparison is stark.

One wonders how many other boats have sunk on the journey and how many others have died silently and alone.

Tragically, it happens everywhere. There's the gruesome flotsam of people trying to swim across the Med on the beaches of southern France, shipping containers full of dead east Europeans at Calais and Dover, south Americans dying of thirst in the badlands of Texas and Arizona.
 

strongbeer

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Without offending anyone here, the people who came out on the boats knew they were risking their and thier loved-ones lives, breaking australian law aswsell as thier own countrys law.

Maybe Australia has finally stopped being gutless and is now stopping the boats...... Diverting them to Flying Fish Cove :lol:
 

Banshee

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Strong beer I know you are only kiddin.

Really they should resolve the issues in their own country and stop running away from the problems. Most of the refugees are comming from backward Islam countries which need to get with the times. I'm sure if conditions changed in their country they would be happier to stay at home. Maybe if the government didn't give them free money they would not see it as favourable.
I reckon the Australian government should talk to the pacific island and see if they can put a percentage there and pay the countries to accomodate them and give them social security according to their laws. I'm sure it will deter some when they realise they are not going to be granted entry into Australia.
 

Thirsty Boy

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I hope, I really really hope - that if one day you are forced to flee your country because you fear for your life and freedom and that of your family, that the people who end up deciding whether you deserve to be helped, or to be shipped back to where you came from - don't think like you.

I don't know about you, but I think that persecution, imprisonment, rape, torture & death - the sorts things that these people have all experienced - those are problems worth running away from. Try suggesting a way that a family could "resolve the issue" of wives and daughters being unable to go fetch water without there being a damn fine chance of being gang raped on the way there and back. Try sitting down with someone who its happened to and see if you can manage to tell them to their face that they should have stayed where they were and just tried harder to make it all better.

As for Strongbeer's comment - I'm afraid that putting the words "without offending anyone here" in front of a sentence doesn't mean you wont. The fact that anyone could actually express those sentiments in light of what just happened to a boat load of human beings is offensive almost beyond my ability to express. I am actively nauseated that someone could say such a thing and then think its funny. At any rate, I will never have to read Strongbeer's shameful "humour" again - in one post he has added himself to the list of people who's opinion I have no interest in ever hearing on any subject whatsoever. I have put him on ignore and I only wish people like that were as easy to ignore in the real world as they are on a forum. Pathetic.
 

schooey

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...the people who came out on the boats knew they were risking their and thier loved-ones lives...
It seems so logical to me that the conditions of life where they were must have been horrific to do this; can you not see that?
 

manticle

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Without going into too much detail, I'm with ThirstyBoy and Schooey.

I would have hoped that a well publicised incident like this might show refugees are another set of humans which in turn might stop people demonising them.

Does anyone who thinks they should just resolve issues in their own country or just jump on a plane have any real indication of the actuality of 3rd world poverty?
 

strongbeer

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banshee, thirsty boy (your not gonna get this post, but anyway), schooey and whoever else wants to comment on my post:

First of all i want to apologise for the last sentence, I too think i majorly crossed the line (why i posted that i have no idea). I know that children were among the dead and being a father and husband myself would be gut-wrenched to hear and see my helpless child and or wife die in anyway at all, as we all would so i do sympathise.

Although i cant put myself in their shoes and experience the horrific conditions they are fleeing. All the boats that come our way get intercepted in the same place every time, the boat people accept that theyre not gonna get to australia but be detained at christmas island, be processed and be checked for any links to criminal/terrorist activity AND then be released into the country. THIS BOAT did not. They did not want to be intercepted. Can anyone put themselves in my shoes for just a split second and ask: "what were they hiding?"

Weather or not i am digging a bigger hole for myself i dont know. I just wish to apologise for my prevoius post and explain my beliefs.

SB

P.S. I'm gonna read about beer now, as this website intended.
 

Steve

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or just jump on a plane have any real indication of the actuality of 3rd world poverty?

They managed it in their millions in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and 10's to get into England.
I grew up with immigrants, refugees, asylum seekers. Horribly, due to our ignorance, whereever they came from we just called them all Packis. Every corner shop was run by Indians or Packistanis. They paid their way to get there, they applied to stay and were welcomed (eventually). They are now just a part of Englands culture (even Englands national dish is now Indian). Apparently now where I grew up the new wave of immigrants are from poland. They're getting a hard time but they'll eventually just become another part of Englands culture. I just dont see why they should be locked up for years in the middle of a desert with the threat of being stuck on a plane back to where they came from. Let them in I reckon......fark imagine if Australia did the same to all the ships that arrived in the 50's and 60's. Australia would be a very boring place... I could go on but im watching a Spongebob all-day marathon on nickelodean.
Cheers
Steve

Edit...actually the more I think about it the immigrants to England were called Boat People...so they too must've come via boat instead of plane as it was probably cheaper

Edit Edit......my grandparents came to Brisbane in the 50's on the the $10 ticket with my mum (when she was 5) from Glasgow, Scotland....they didnt like it and went back to bloody Scotland! Can you believe it?
 

manticle

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A lot of the immigration to various parts of Europe has also been due to the host nation's previous colonial exploits and subsequent perceived obligations and is a slightly different situation.

Generally agree though that this country post white settlement has been built on a diversity of cultures and that it adds rather than takes away. Area I live in was very much an Italian and Greek area (and still is) in the 50s and onwards. There's also a fairly substantial arab/Middle eastern population here and surrounding suburbs.

My own genetic background is unknown as I'm adopted. That of my partner is completely mongrel and includes Sicilian, Egyptian, British and possibly Eastern European/Jewish. Her father came here from Sicily as a young man, her grandfather (maternal) was in the British airforce and married an Egyptian/Italian. They travelled (by boat) from Alexandria to the UK, then from the UK to here years later.

I'm all for immigration. Helps us, helps them. I understand processes need to be followed but I'd really like to see a little bit of intelligence applied to the whole 'illegal queue jumper spend a lot of money because we're so happy and well off' media hype. That intelligence needs to strat with the people who consume the media - hopefully then both media and politicians will follow suit.
 

browndog

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The terror those people went though is unimaginable. The parents with children must have suffered the worst seeing their kids and babies swept away. The only thing worse would have been a witness to this standing on the cliffs unable to help save them. What a tragedy. Counterpoint to this is the survivors, protesting about food and airconditioning.

what a fucked up world.

Browndog
 

spog

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if anyone wont,s to emigrate to any country on the planet,then they must apply for entry,it,s as simple as that.!these people took a risk and look what has happened.
it is not the fault of the navy,you,or me.
the refugees get more than those who helped build this country.
WE do not have enough medical,education and police staff to look after us citizens.
honestly what has happened is sad but i will NEVER budge from my stance of,entering a country through the correct ,legal way ........REGARDLESS.......................cheers.......spog...........
 

drsmurto

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if anyone wont,s to emigrate to any country on the planet,then they must apply for entry,it,s as simple as that.!these people took a risk and look what has happened.
it is not the fault of the navy,you,or me.
the refugees get more than those who helped build this country.
WE do not have enough medical,education and police staff to look after us citizens.
honestly what has happened is sad but i will NEVER budge from my stance of,entering a country through the correct ,legal way ........REGARDLESS.......................cheers.......spog...........
So which white Australian on the first fleet requested immigration rights from the indigenous Australians whose country was invaded and who suffered near genocide?

This country is founded on illegal immigration (aka invasion).

Threads like this one and the various gay threads of late have enabled me to add more than a dozen people to my ignore list.

To be honest, i dont know why i bother coming here anymore. :(
 

mwd

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If Indonesia started executing people smugglers then the boats would stop. But Indonesia the biggest Muslim Country in the world dose not want any of these people so they turn a blind eye. Let the dumbshits Australia take all the flotsam in, they can afford it and the Government is a joke.
 

manticle

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Can any one person give a personal experience story of how these illegal queue jumping types have actually impacted on their lives?

Any real experience of what a couple of thousand people over a year's period do to you besides make you read about them in the paper or decide which wanker politician is tougher than another?

Consider this news story: A large number of people, including some children, drowned off the coast of Australia a couple of days ago.

Is it OK to feel sympathy or do we need to make political mileage out of it or use it to push our hobby horses a bit furhter?
 
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