Chocolate Stout Recipe

[phinnsfotos]

Hi all,

I want to put down a chocolate stout recipe and I want to make use of the ingredients that I have.

Speaking of which, what I've got:
Coopers Stout kit
Coopers Dark Liquid Malt
350gm Roast Barley
60gm of East Kent Goldings
500gm of Light Dry Malt
200gm of Lactose

So from reading around I was thinking of something like:
Coopers Stout kit
Coopers Dark Liquid Malt
1 Kg of Light Dry Malt
200gm of Choc Malt
200gm of Lindt (90 or 99%) chocolate
200gm of Lactose
30gm of EKG @ 15 mins
US04 Yeast

Boil up the lactose and LDM with the wort from the steeped grain. After it's all dissolved add the grated chocolate. After the chocolate dissolves add the EKG for the 15 boil.

So some questions:

Do you think I need to add any coco?
What does the grated chocolate do when you add it into the boil? Just dissolve nicely? Or go weird and burn?
Do you think I need to add more lactose?
Will adding roasted barley be of benefit?

I'd like it to chocolaty enough so I don't have to explain to people that it really is a chocolate stout, but not so much that it's like drinking chocolate milk. Something nice to have by it's self after dinner.

Cheers,
Finn.

 

[manticle]

The problem with adding actual chocolate is that the fats can interfere with head retention.

I make an AG sweet stout that uses lactose and choc malt and tastes very chocolatey. There's no choc in it (also uses roast barley).

However in my extract and partial days I played around with adding cocoa powder. No head retention problems there.

Lactose is sweet, roast barley is coffee like, choc can add both coffee and choc flavours.

 

[phinnsfotos]

So use 200gms of good coco instead of the lindt chocolate. Will the 200gm of Lactose be enough?

 

[manticle]

I use 500 in mine. It does come out very sweet (not cloying) but it balances against the roastier malts. I think 200 would definitely be noticeable - it's as much about figuring out where your own tastes lie as anything else.

I'll knock up some recipe suggestions tomorrow.

 

[manticle]

Ok.

Examining what you have there and examining some old extract recipes and my newer full mash recipes I have some suggestions. I'm assuming that you can beef up your stocks with a couple of extra purchases?

It's been said that adding too much to a stout kit might get things over the top. Are you happy to go extract + spec grain?

If so do you have a pot that can boil 10 litres (12+ litre size minimum)

First suggestion:

Extract w/grain

Size: 20 liters
Color: 138 HCU (~44 SRM)
Bitterness: 33 IBU
OG: 1.069 FG: 1.020
Alcohol: 6.3% v/v (5.0% w/w)

STEEP:

Grain: 150g British chocolate
350g Roasted barley
100g British black patent
Boil: 60minutes SG 1036 Boil size 10 liters

ADD TO FULL BOIL

1kg Dark malt extract
Hops: 40g Kent Goldings (5% AA, 60 min.)
10g Kent Goldings (5% AA, 20 min.)

ADD IN LAST TEN MINUTES OF BOIL

2.5kg Light dry malt extract
250g Corn sugar

ADD AT END OF BOIL:

250 - 500g of lactose. This depends entirely on how sweet you want it. 500g is what I use in my sweet stout. It's not cloying but it's very chocolatey. Definitely a dessert finisher for most people. Cocoa is optional. I'd err on the side of caution - when I did use it I probably used enough to make 21-2 nice strong cups worth. It was evident without being overpowering. I find choc malt and lactose to be enough nowadays.

If you want to go the kit, maybe just add in 200g lactose, 25 g cocoa and some EKG (maybe 20 g) and boil for 20 minutes. Taste a bit at the end of the boil and judge if it needs more cocoa or lactose.

I've heard many suggest that adding grains to an already black kit (which is black because of roasted grains) just overpowers the profile. I didn't start using grains until I was making extract brews so I can't vouch either way but it makes sense.

The third suggestion is just an extract adaption of my AG recipe found here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...amp;recipe=1027

Converting AG to extract: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=97 (link pdf at bottom of page)

The only thing is you may need to drop the biscuit as that needs to be mashed with other base malts.

 

[manticle]

Just because edit option has disappeared: Firstly 'British' grain is just due to my recipe software. You could use any choc, black patent etc. I use Joe white most of the time. Shouldn't matter for this exercise.

Secondly 21-2 cups actually means 1-2. Typo. However my strong cups of cocoa are probably very strong so lets say between 3 and 5 cups of cocoa. When I used the stuff it was very rough so I don't know exactly. I'd limit to 20g for the first and see which way you want to go from there.

 

[phinnsfotos]

I like the idea of combining Chocolate Malt with Lactose to give a "chocolate" flavour.

I'm going to use the kit stout and liquid dark malt because they're in the cupboard and I want to use them.

I've bought a half kilo of Choc Chit Malt and an extra half a kilo of Lactose so I've got some options.

Do you think 250gm of Chocolate with 500gm of Lactose be too much choc? I'll taste the wort as I'm making it and I'll see if I can do it without using coco.

I'll go for 20gm of EKG for 20 mins as you suggested.

And maybe 350gm of Roast Barley and 500gm of Light Dry Malt to add some further complexity ??????? Or am I cramming too much into this beer?

So lets just summarise that:

1 x 1.7Kg Coopers Stout
1 x 1.5Kg Coopers Dark Liquid Malt
250gm Choc Chit Malt
500gm Lactose
20gm EKG at 20 mins

And maybe the 350gm or Roast Barley and 500gm of Light Dry Malt

And lastly I'm thinking about pitching two packs of Coopers Yeast. Do "better" yeasts make as much of a difference to these darker beers?

 

[phinnsfotos]

Obviously the line:

"Do you think 250gm of Chocolate with 500gm of Lactose be too much choc? I'll taste the wort as I'm making it and I'll see if I can do it without using coco."

Should read:

"Do you think 250gm of Chocolate Chit Malt with 500gm of Lactose be too much choc? I'll taste the wort as I'm making it and I'll see if I can do it without using coco.

 

[manticle]

Yeasts that don't have a prominent yeasty profile can be just as important as those that do. However I've made tasty stout kits using the coopers yeast so why not give it a go? Everything's a development.

I've not use choc chit but too much choc can supposedly give a bit of harshness. I don't overuse it in my porter or stout recipes and find no harshness (and those who've drunk it who are wary of roasty dark beers often comment on that characteristic).

The thing is that the stout kit profile will have a distinct profile and has a good level of bitterness. A 20 minute addition will still add some bitterness. My above suggestions were for an extract brew. If going the kit I would keep similar proportions but lessen the quantities.

For example - I use between 300 and 500g of Roast Barley in an AG stout but there's no other roast barley in there. I use 150g choc but there's no other choc in there. If you are to use 250 plus the grains that are already in the stout kit it might be overkill.

Obviously there's only one way to find out but I reckon you're better off adding more next time because underdoing it will still give you a nice brew. Overdoing it will give you litres of beer you have to suffer through.

If you are going to add hops and roasted grains to a stout kit though I would stick with the 500g of lactose if you want a sweet chocolatey stout. With your recipe above I'd drop the choc addition to 150 and leave the roast barley till next time. 20g of EKG plus the bitterness from the hops in the kit will combat the sweetness which you want to accenuate so maybe drop to around 10.

I'd also leave out the LDME - there'll be plenty going on already in the malt department.

Better to make a nice drinkable beer that you can tweak upwards for next time rather than go overboard and think 'yuk that's too much'.

 

[phinnsfotos]

Thanks Manticle. I'll drop the Choc Chit and the hops down a notch and see how we go.

I wanted to make sure that this recipe was on the right track. My other beers seem to do a good job of evaporating all by themselves, but seeing as I'm about the only person that drinks my stouts I wanted to make sure I had something I'd actually want to drink.

Just need to get my Irish Red out of the laundry sink (read temp control) and the stout is going straight on

 

[manticle]

Just realised I was the one who suggested 20g of EKG with the kit. Sorry, wasn't thinking straight.

 

[Lobby Lobster]

Just realised I was the one who suggested 20g of EKG with the kit. Sorry, wasn't thinking straight.

I haven't tried this myself but I'm throwing it out there because it's topical.

I'll try it mid winter maybe just out of curiosity. Anyway, I read a recipe for chocolate stout that incorporated chocolate topping.

http://www.thbs.intas.net/kit_recipes.htm#SIMPLY CHOCOLATE

They don't recommend a particular topping though.

 

[phinnsfotos]

Unfortunately my Red Ale I was making came out a bit sweeter than I expected:

1.7Kg Coopers English Bitter
1.5Kg Coopers Light Liquid Malt
500gm Coopers Light Dry Malt
500gm Cara Red
250gm Cara Munich
120gm Roast Barley

Finished at 1.014. I couldn't get it any lower. I think it will come up okay but I'm pretty sure it's going to fill the "After dinner beer" slot for a while. So I'm thinking I'll convert the chocolate stout to a dry stout.

If I drop the lactose out can I still use some/all of the Chocolate Malt? I'd like to use some of it because it's sitting cracked in the fridge right now.

I'm thinking something like:

1.7Kg Coopers Stout
1.5Kg Coopers Dark Liquid Malt
100gm Chit Chocolate Malt
10gm EKG at 20 Mins
2 packs of Coopers Kit Yeast (their building up, may as well use some)

Or is it still worth throwing in 50-100gm of Lactose for a bit of balance? Or would light dry malt be better?

Thanks again for all the help.

Cheers,
Finn.

 

[manticle]

1014 for a mainly extract brew is actually pretty good. Any lower and it ould be in danger of being on the thin side.
Irish red should be malty. Taste rather than FG should be the defining factor.

As far as the stout goes - either would be fine. It depends entirely on what you want in the finished product. I'm about to try my choc stout AG recipe but drop out the lactose to see how it fares as a drier stout recipe. What I'll probably do is a double batch but split off one half with lactose and the other without for winter (drinking my second last cream stout as I write and autumn's only just begun).

 

[jetfoley]

I just made a Choc stout that so far I'm very happ with.

My suggestions are;

the more lactose you add the less cocoa you need, like adding sugar to a glass of milo. I perfer a dry stout not sweet, after all that is how they are traditionally.

be careful with the barley (coffee flavours) vs choc... choc is an interesting taste to have in beer, you dont need coffee confusing the situation. deside what you want dominant and have the other as just a suttle hint.

dont use chocolate, use cocoa (i sed 125g as I wanted it suttle, 250g will give you a taste that most people will pick straight away without having to tell them theres choc in it, 250g< will make it very chocolaty.)

Belgiums make great stouts, alot of them have choc or coffee tastes... go try a few (alot of decent bottleos will sell em) and make up you own mind.

 

[cwbrown07]

I have been playing around with an extract recipe for a Sweet Stout, with version two currently sitting in primary - after three days it is tasting pretty good.

Sweet Stout v2

2kg dark dry malt (0.4kg added to boil (4L boil - only got a small pot), balance added after boil)

500g pale chocolate malt
100g carared
100g carapils (all grains steeped for about 45mins at 60-odd degrees)

130g dextrose (was what I had lying around)

10g target @60mins
15g EKG @15mins
10g EKG @5mins

1 x S-04 yeast

Topeed up to 18L Ferment at 19 degrees

OG 1.050

The aim was to try and get plenty of malt sweetness via the grains rather than using lactose as I didn't have any and am not really all that familiar with it.

Hopefully a touch of chocolate and a hint of caramel in the finished product with a nice head.

 

[phinnsfotos]

1014 for a mainly extract brew is actually pretty good. Any lower and it ould be in danger of being on the thin side.
Irish red should be malty. Taste rather than FG should be the defining factor.

Thanks Manticle. I was trying to get it to ferment out as much as I could. I read a good article (somewhere) about adding yeast nutrients after day three of fermentation. When there's lots of hungry yeast around but they're starting to run out of the good stuff. I had mis-read the Kits and Extract spread sheet when I was thinking it should have been under 1.014, now I go back and redo it I see that 1.014 is exactly what the spread sheet predicts.

It's only been in the bottle a week but I pulled 32 long necks out of the batch so I figured I have 2 spares to drink early. Not to mention the last bottle had a solid inch of trub and carbed up after 2 days (probably could have used it as a starter). I even burped it and it was still tight as a drum. So I drank the last bottle of the batch yesterday and was pretty pleased with the results. Quite sweet but there's still a bitterness on the finish, so I think it will do fine with a month in the bottle. It went quite nicely with some Lindt 90% chocolate I had.