Chilling With No Chill

[MarkBastard]

I know the title doesn't make much sense but bare with me.

I've heard of people using cubes and the no chill method, but then tying a rope to the handle of the cube and chucking the cube in the pool.

From what I can tell the main 'problem' with no chilling in a cube is that late hop additions can altered. Is the above a solution to this problem?

Specifically what temperature is needed to make sure the no chilling method works, ie it kills any bugs in the cube?

And at what temperature do hop additions stop being screwed with?

I want to use a cube but instead of storing it I want to hopefully pitch that day. While I don't have a pool I was thinking I could give the cube an ice bath or something like that.

 

[raven19]

No chill pasturising occurs at 15 minutes or more over 70 degrees (iirc).

Hence you could dunk into the Pool after say 20 mins to be sure.

There are other threads discussing hop utilisation and no chilling. I find my bitterness is fine with a no chill, however late additions are almost pointless, and a hop tea after or during ferment is the way to go for late additions.

Others have tasted side by side chill and no chill with no difference being detected in bitterness, others have had the bitterness tested and results show approx 5 IBU higher in the No Chill version.

In your case, I would no chill, then after 20+ minutes, dunk into the pool, then pitch once cooled enough.

My findings thus far no chilling, and my 2c worth! :icon_cheers:

 

[Supra-Jim]

You won't get good cooling efficiency doing it that way MB. As the two most common forms of cooling (counterflow chiller plate, and immersion chiller) rely on exposing as much of the hot liquid surface area to the cooling water (multiple plates in a counter flow chiller, and stirring or whirlpooling the wort for an immersion jobby).

If you just chuck a cube in cold water/ice, you only the outer surface of the cube in contact with the cooling water (small area relative to your liquid volume), and no way to adjitate your hot wort, other than pivkup the cube and shaking it.

Cheers SJ

edit - if you had a pool it might be feasible as your cooling reservoir is 'free', but if you have to buy/make ice, i would say it would be more effort than its worth.

 

[sav]

The ice bath is a option it will take alot of ice, wait over night with a wet towl over it and pitch the next day,or get another cube they are handy as.

As far as hops when I cube I put the flame out addition into the cube I was getting added bitterness than usual.
sav

 

[MarkBastard]

Thanks guys.

I get a bit confused because people say for example flavour additions 20 minutes and aroma 5 minutes before flame out, but what happens after flame out time wise? It's as if as soon as the flame is off it doesn't matter so much. How long do people whirlpool for at full temp for example and does this affect late hop additions? Realistically how long between flame out and the wort being at a cool enough temperature that aroma editions are not being converted into flavour additions etc? This part has always confused me.

Regarding hop teas, that seems easy enough for aroma editions into the fermenter, but I'm guessing it doesn't cut mustard for flavour additions.

With the ice bath I was thinking I could at least get the temperature in the cube down enough so hop utilisation wasn't being affected. Know what I mean?

I suppose the answer is to do regular bittering additions, then cube hop for flavour, then hop tea for aroma.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Does anyone know how long it'll take to get a cube down to pitching temps when using a pool?

Cheers

 

[Supra-Jim]

I know what your getting at MB, but i reckon you'll even use a crap load of ice to get below isomerisation temps.

Unless a recipe specifically calls for a whirlpool hop addition, i start chilling as soon as the gas switches off. Running tap water through my immerision chiller, i drop about 10 deg in 3-4 mins.

As for isomerisation temps, may this extrat points in the right direction (quick google!!)

"At 70deg C, less than 10% of alpha acids were converted in a 90 minute boil, At 120deg C, only 30 minutes were required for 90% conversion"

Link is here http://ift.confex.com/ift/2004/techprogram/paper_25787.htm

I think they are looking at boiling in modified atmospheres (vacuum and pressurised).

IF you extrapolate from this, you need to think about how long your wort will be above or at 70degC.

Hope some of this helps.

Cheers SJ

 

[sav]

I now wait to my wort is about 90deg then I do my last addition the same when I cube.

 

[MarkBastard]

Thanks Supra.

I think I've read some people flame out, chuck a whirfloc in, then wait a bit, then whirlpool, etc etc. Could be a while before even transferring to cube. When do you add whirfloc? Same time as you start chilling?

I sort of want to chill but I know I'll never be able to get to pitching temps anyway in Brisbane. If I knew for sure I could get to 18 degrees I'd buy a plate chiller.

 

[sav]

What ever your tap water is the plate chiller will do, I love my plate chiller,I am using my tank water now and putting it back in the gutter so I am not waisting any water.

 

[MarkBastard]

What ever your tap water is the plate chiller will do, I love my plate chiller,I am using my tank water now and putting it back in the gutter so I am not waisting any water.

My tap water would be lucky be 20 degrees in the middle of winter I reckon.

I guess if I no chill I can chuck the jerry can in my fermenting fridge at 18 degrees the next day, then pitch the day after. Still that's two wasted days IMO. Bloody annoying this chilling business.

 

[A3k]

Thanks Supra.

When do you add whirfloc? Same time as you start chilling?

I put it in 10 - 15mins before flameout. Pretty sure that's what's on the packet.

I use to forget it nearly every brew, so now when i'm weighing my hops out i put my whirlfloc and yeast nutrient in with the 10 or 15 minute additions.

Al

 

[TidalPete]

I sort of want to chill but I know I'll never be able to get to pitching temps anyway in Brisbane. If I knew for sure I could get to 18 degrees I'd buy a plate chiller.

Tap water through immersion chiller followed by iced water through immersion chiller got my latest lager down to 14 deg c last week.
$20 bunnings pond pump in old esky + 3 icecream containers of ice did the trick. Secret is to keep the iced water level in the esky below the top of the pond pump. Chilled water in esky was 9 deg c when pump was stopped.
No reason why this would not work with a plate chiller (Which I still intend to get one fine day).

As mentioned, whirlfloc at 15 minutes is good.

T

 

[Bribie G]

1. I nochill in a Willow cube and leave overnight, put it into the fridge for a few hours and it's usually fine to pitch the next evening. So Grain to Pitch in 24 hours is quite acceptable
2. I do a bittering hops addition and a 10 min addition for flavour etc, but as previous posters say I rely more on dry hopping and hop tea for aroma additions. A five minute boil then a squeeze in a coffee plunger and the liquid added at the same time as pitching the yeast is, to me, equivalent of a 'hop back' type addition.
3. Some brewers do a cube addition of hops at flame out, but I suppose some isomerisation would occur for the first hour so I haven't tried that as I'm not so much into bittering as into malt driven beers. Might be worth a try in highly hopped beers such as Americans.

 

[roverfj1200]

I put my 10 litre cubes in the pool to cool and find about an hour will drop them to pool temp of about 24.

Cheers

Ps. with pump on to move water about.

 

[user 11560]

as far as my rusty physics knowledge goes, throwing a cube into a pool probably won't achieve much at all wrt hop utilisation because there's simply not enough surface area for efficient heat dissipation (as mentioned).

Done a few AGs now, cube hopped all of them with about 20g worth. There's plenty of aroma into the fermenter, but not so much into the glass. It's still definitely there though. Dry hop is probably the go. Might give it a try next time (tomorrow )

 

[Bribie G]

After looking around for a coffee plunger for a reasonable price, Woolies now have their own 'essentials' brand for only $9. The kitchen shops all wanted about thirty bucks for them and even Target wasn't much better.
They work best with flowers or plugs, but pellets are ok as long as you dont lean too hard on the handle and get a 'break through' around the edge of the 'piston'.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Here's my chiller been using it for about 5 years,

25 x 1L blocks of ice as in picture will chill aprox 25L of wort down to 18-20C in 20 min.

30-35 will get it down to around 13-14C if doing a lager.



Cheers,
BB

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I put my 10 litre cubes in the pool to cool and find about an hour will drop them to pool temp of about 24.

Cheers

Ps. with pump on to move water about.

There's your answer - plonking your cube in the pool will chill it down pretty rapidly. Remember, lot of the commercial beers you taste that have plenty of aroma, will be chilling through a heat exchanger and the wort will be in the whirlpool @ 90+ for up to an hour.

Cube your wort - immediately chuck it in the pool - tie it up in front of the pump outlet so water is moving past it and it is jiggling about (which will speed up the cooling) and in a bit more than an hour Bob will be your auntie's brother. So long as you are certain the cube is well sealed anyway!!

A few frozen coke bottles in a tub will then get it to whatever you desired pitching temperature might be, without any concern with needing to do it "fast"

None of the rules that apply to no-chill apply to this scenario - you haven't done no-chill, you have chilled.. just in a different way. You will be able to work out when and how much hop to use for your late additions after a few brews experience. Just don't try to then do the "no-chill" thing as well and decide you wont pitch your yeast for another week or two... you might get away with it, but the anecdotal evidence from brewers who have done this suggests you are at a much higher risk of a cube infection if you do.

 

[Scruffy]

Just remember; once the boiling wort is in the cube and you've secured the lid, invert it for a minute or so to a. kill bugs and b. keep the liquid inside the cube moving. Also remember that the pool will only cool the surfaces in contact with the water, and that the core will remain warm for a while... agitate from time to time...



Note the large head space schoolboy error!!