Chiller - your experience

[JaseH]

The only gripe i have with plate chillers and most one-pass methods is that while youre chilling, most of the wort is still at near boiling temps, so isomerization's still occuring, right? Same with no chill and aroma hop issues there but to a lesser degree
Thats why Jamil Z elects not to use them too i believe

At what temperature point does isomerization stop? I have the complete wort volume cooled to <20C within 5min. Basically half the wort volume would be cooled in under half that time - how quickly does an IC get the entire wort volume below isomerization temps?

 

[fletcher]

The only gripe i have with plate chillers and most one-pass methods is that while youre chilling, most of the wort is still at near boiling temps, so isomerization's still occuring, right? Same with no chill and aroma hop issues there but to a lesser degree
Thats why Jamil Z elects not to use them too i believe

yeah, i see what you're saying, but we're delving into splitting hairs territory. each to their own, but it will normally take me about 5 mins to get 20L of wort through it. bigger batches would probably need more time and perhaps need the IBU adjustment, or if you're looking at making beer on a commercial scale.

 

[Blind Dog]

why the hate for plate chillers?

are people scared or confused about how to use them?

For me it's just that I can't see inside so I don't know if it is clean. With an ic I can see and clean the coil/FSM that comes in contact with the wort. The Cfc I'm contemplating making would also be pullapartable so I know it's clean. Paranoia probably

 

[Blind Dog]

Mind you claims of 5 minutes to cool to 20C with a plate chiller have me thinking...

Is that with a pump and ice water?

 

[Moad]

CFC is unreal but so wasteful with water. I probably use a litre of water to chill each litre of wort.

 

[panzerd18]

20 Litres of water is nothing when you compare it to a long shower. 150 gallons for 15 minutes.

 

[Moad]

80L but I get your point, whatever a gallon is. This is Straya

The garden thanked me

 

[Adr_0]

Mind you claims of 5 minutes to cool to 20C with a plate chiller have me thinking...
Is that with a pump and ice water?

A pump and ice water is ok, but you need a fair bit of ice to do this. Heat of fusion of ice is handy (335kJ/kg) and then 4.2kJ/kg for each degree up to, say, 20°C. For 23L it is about 4 bags.

The 20°C mentioned is with 16°C water from the garden hose. It is up to you where you put your energy: on the garden or pay for ice.

More plates = more surface area so you will get closer to 16°C for the same amount of water.

The 5 min is just how long it takes to drain, or recirc back into the kettle...

And the 20L tap water (16°C) to cool 23,L of 100°C wort to 20°C... Don't think so.

 

[JaseH]

Any counter flow style chiller will use a lot of water - I think plate chiller should use less than an IC as plate chiller is quicker and more efficient. But that doesn't mean you have to waste it. I run most of mine back into the HLT and a couple of buckets then use it for clean up, watering garden/lawn etc.

I drain the kettle through the plate chiller under gravity and just use Melbourne tap water and get about 27L wort to around 20C in ~5min.

 

[dago001]

My experience with the plate chiller - 36 litres of wort down to <20 deg in approx 10 minutes. I gravity feed mine. To clean it I run water through it both ways ad starsan. On brew days I remove the fittings and drop it in my HLT and let it sit in there for 1/2 hour or so. My HLT is normally around 80 or so degrees, sometimes higher. After I sparge I pull it out, put the fittings back on and get it ready for cooling. No infections at this stage after 20 + brews.
Cheers
LB

 

[fletcher]

Mind you claims of 5 minutes to cool to 20C with a plate chiller have me thinking...

Is that with a pump and ice water?

no mate. all gravity fed. i don't recirculate the water so if water usage is an issue then a pump might help you, but i've not used one. it gets it cool stupid fast. not joking. as stated, i've never had a problem with mine with simple flushes and a quick sanitise; as have many others

 

[Edak]

CFC is unreal but so wasteful with water. I probably use a litre of water to chill each litre of wort.

Good luck with that. Common sense tells me that the final temperature in this scenario would be about 50 degrees

 

[Moad]

Good luck with that. Common sense tells me that the final temperature in this scenario would be about 50 degrees

I don't understand? I crank the hose flat out and run straight into fermenter... last time on an 80L batch I had chilled to 22 and had a kettle full so more like 90-100L of water used.

 

[Adr_0]

I don't understand? I crank the hose flat out and run straight into fermenter... last time on an 80L batch I had chilled to 22 and had a kettle full so more like 90-100L of water used.

Look, I don't know... 50L batches I did a few years ago had the hose running for 20-30min, and that was pre - chilling with ice (1 x IC for pre-chilling, one in the wort). And that only got it down to 30 or so. So that was say 200L and the water was 8-12°C.

The surface area of a plate chiller means you can get closer to your water inlet temperature, but it doesn't mean you can break the first law of thermodynamics.

 

[doon]

http://jadedbrewing.com

These guys seem to have a good range of IC and counter flow

Not sure what the postage would be though

 

[Moad]

Look, I don't know... 50L batches I did a few years ago had the hose running for 20-30min, and that was pre - chilling with ice (1 x IC for pre-chilling, one in the wort). And that only got it down to 30 or so. So that was say 200L and the water was 8-12°C.

The surface area of a plate chiller means you can get closer to your water inlet temperature, but it doesn't mean you can break the first law of thermodynamics.

Cool, I'm not talking about a plate chiller though. CFC, why would I make this up haha

Maybe I need to measure and be more specific next time, wouldn't want to piss you guys off about how much water I have/haven't used.

To the OP, ignore my posts mate they are clearly misleading!

 

[klangers]

Plate chillers are what the big boys use. If they didn't result in the highest quality of beer and also be the most efficient then they wouldn't be used.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

CFC is the industry (process/industrial) standard for a heat exchanger, which keeps in mind the most efficient way to transfer heat from one medium to another. Think there are a few questions people are trying to answer here by bringing in sanitation issues and the likes, but....

If we look at the options purely for the fastest way to chill the wort with a fixed temp and volume of cooling water the CFC will be #1 every time. Its goverened by the rules/fundamentals of thermodynamics.

 

[Adr_0]

e. Its goverened by the rules/fundamentals of thermodynamics.

Moad's isn't... EDIT: I should also say that IC's and plate chillers are too..

Shell and tube are the most popular, which are generally counter - flow, but a very different physical beast to the CFC's for brewing. They are popular because they are easy to fabricate, can be inspected easily and can be built to take high pressure.

"the rules of thermodynamics" mean that you still have a certain volume /mass of high energy liquid (delicious wort) that needs to follow the second law and give its precious energy to something cooler. The first law says that you will need more than 1:1 cool water:wort unless you are only chilling from 30°C.

The zeroeth law says that if you don't have any flow and just let it sit there in the plate chiller it will all balance out at some point. But since we are not at steady state, we need some differential temps, some flow and some surface area.

The surface area (ignoring turbulence) of a plate chiller will give you more power than a small length of copper tube. This means that for the same flow/fluid properties you will get your wort closer to your cooling water temp. Or, for the same target temperature, you can slightly reduce your flow RATE. You may use less water, but it means your cooling water just gets hotter - no first law breaking allowed.

Or, you know, whatever. If you have a special CFC I'd love to get one...

 

[wobbly]

You have already stated one parameter by saying you aren't a fan of plate chillers so I guess that rules them out.

What are your other parameters/must haves vs desirable such as

• Amount of water used
• time to cool to pitch temperature
• ease of use
• numbers of pieces of equipment
• break into fermenter or not

Answers to these and any others I have left out may well tell you what you want.

And if you are after a IC then check out this site and open the link to Immersion chillers for variations and the claim that one of their designs cools faster than most plate chillers

http://jadedbrewing.com/products/the-hydra

Cheers

Wobbly