Cask and Hand-pump

[Bribie G]

I didn't spot them in the catalogues, I'll be in Casino and Lismore tomorrow so will give both Aldis a flogging.

 

[LorriSanga]

[SIZE=11pt]They are a bit fragile and fiddly. The advantage of using them over a ridged cube is they collapse as you pour so don’t need to be continuously topped up with co2. I have been using one filled with co2 instead and attaching it to a cube so I get the best of both worlds. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]

20151126_190339.jpg [/SIZE]

I don't understand the difference between this and a keg on low carb. I think it was Bribie who said he does this.

 

[welly2]

I don't understand the difference between this and a keg on low carb. I think it was Bribie who said he does this.

I think it's just another method. Might suit S.E. more than kegging. I'm doing neither, at this point, just straight into the collapsible cube. Will investigate other means as I learn about serving cask ale!

 

[S.E]

I don't understand the difference between this and a keg on low carb. I think it was Bribie who said he does this.

Do you mean a cube on low carb? I think that’s what Bribie G said he used for cask ale. An un modified keg on low carb wouldn’t work as the co2 pressure would need to be high enough to push the beer op the dip tube to serve so that would be keg ale not cask.

A keg could be fitted with a tap at the bottom and used for cask ale or a beer engine used to draw the beer up through the dip tube.

With the combined cube and collapsible bag you don’t need to tie up kegs, co2 bottle and regulator. In fact you don’t need a co2 system.

All as I do is fill up the bag with co2 from the fermenter by plugging the bag into the airlock hole when the wort is vigorously fermenting then use the free co2 to top up the cube automatically as the beer is drawn from the cube.

For less than $30 you can put together a draft real ale system. All you need is a cube,bag short length of 10mm tube air lock and grommet.

Drill a hole in the cube cap and fit the grommet. Cut the bottom bit of tube off the airlock (about 3cm) and push it half way in to one end of the tube, the other half pushes in to the grommet. Then push the other end of the tube over the tap on the bag.

I have a few spare cube taps so drilled one of those for the grommet and use un drilled caps while the cubes are conditioning but if you have no spare caps the hole could be blocked with a hard spile or something similar.

 

[welly2]

Might be of interest:

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=64305

I've just ordered some polypins from the UK. They were super cheap so wanted to give them a go. And I've got a Vitop connector on its way with it. Going to give it a go. Basically what I'm doing now but was getting a few leaks this evening when pulling a few beers. We'll see what happens. Beers are coming out really well other than that and despite the beer fermenting any flavour out but it looks like a cask ale at least!

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Your right welly it is basically what you are doing now, I presume that the white piece is an inline non return valve which is what you may need to prevent the leaks which you are getting. You don't really need any of that what you have sent away for, you can, or have, already made up the same system without the box and a stronger collapsible bag.

 

[welly2]

Your right welly it is basically what you are doing now, I presume that the white piece is an inline non return valve which is what you may need to prevent the leaks which you are getting. You don't really need any of that what you have sent away for, you can, or have, already made up the same system without the box and a stronger collapsible bag.

The outlet to my hand pump is proving to be the big pain in the arse. I've got a bit of a dodgy connection between the hand pump and my polypin. It's just a bit unreliable. The Vitop connector looks to be the thing to sort that out and for the sake of $20 plus a bit of postage, I don't mind too much!

 

[Danwood]

Don't you love it when the folks come for a visit from the UK ?

They're off to the shops to buy a change of clothes to wear now.

 

[Midnight Brew]

One day...... :chug:

 

[wide eyed and legless]

O/K going to try the idea SE put forward for collecting the co2 from my fermenting wort, hadn't brewed for a long time and I felt like a virgin newbie brewer, having pitched my yeast and checking every hour to see if had started to work, nearly got out of bed at 4.00 am to check it.
Anyway it is working and the collapsible water container is almost full, so now I am sure that connecting this to my cask will disperse any concerns with gas bottle leaks and over priming the head space of the cask with co2
Such a simple idea, which are always the best, cheers Sean.

 

[S.E]

I use bags of co2 with cubes almost all the time now it works really well. If you have a co2 cylinder just filling the bag from that would obviously be easiest but it is easy enough to fill from a fermenter if you don’t have a keg setup.

A couple of my bags don’t seal properly though and if left full for a few days will start going flat slowly. I bought 2 bags on ebay and 4 more when they were on special at Aldi. I think it’s the Aldi ones that leak.

Only thing is you need to remember to take the bag of when it’s full. I forgot one time and went to bed, in the morning I found the bag had blown up like a balloon and the fermenter was a bit under pressure but luckily co2 was escaping from around the grommet and lid seal.

What I do now is set my phone alarm for one hour (which is the fastest time one has filled for me) then check it estimate how much longer it will take and re set the alarm accordingly.

How long it takes to fill will depend on how fast your wort is fermenting. Using so4 my 20L bags fill in about 1 hour and fermentation is finished in 2-3 days at 18c-20c, Slowest was over 3 hours using M41 Belgian Ale at 24c and fermentation took about 7 days.

I don’t fit the bag immediately after pitching the yeast but leave it till at least the next day so the yeast has used or purged oxygen from the fermrnter and blow off.

Another experiment I tried with a bag and cube was fermenting and serving late hopped ale (Simcoe) from the same cube to minimise any exposure to oxygen. The result was ale with a fantastic hop aroma.

What I did was ferment in the cube with a blow off tube attached to the tap. I didn’t take photos this time but posted pics of this method over in the carbing and conditioning in a cube thread post #52. I think I have already posted a link to them earlier in this thread but it’s here if not or anyone hasn’t seen it.

This time though when fermentation was almost complete and the blow off bubbling slowly I stood the cube upright fitted a cap with a hole and grommet and attached the bag so it could fill with co2 then closed the bag tap so the cube could carb up.

I could have just fitted the blow off to the cap to start with but thought the tap would work better than the smaller grommet hole and not block up as easily in the early stage.

Cheers Sean

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I don’t fit the bag immediately after pitching the yeast but leave it till at least the next day so the yeast has used or purged oxygen from the fermrnter and blow off.

That was something I never thought of, because my first brew in the jerry can toppled over the jerry can was only half full the other half was air, so my first bag is a mixture of air and co2, I have since filled another bag so I will empty the first bag and refill it with my second brew, cost FA so no loss.

 

[S.E]

O/K going to try the idea SE put forward for collecting the co2 from my fermenting wort, hadn't brewed for a long time and I felt like a virgin newbie brewer, having pitched my yeast and checking every hour to see if had started to work, nearly got out of bed at 4.00 am to check it.
Anyway it is working and the collapsible water container is almost full, so now I am sure that connecting this to my cask will disperse any concerns with gas bottle leaks and over priming the head space of the cask with co2
Such a simple idea, which are always the best, cheers Sean.

001 - Copy.JPG

Just noticed you have reduced the tube over the bag tap down to gas line and a tap above the fv lid. What’s the idea behind that are you going to pressure transfer to a cube?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

No just different sizes on the taps.

 

[S.E]

No just different sizes on the taps.

Why did you use a tap on the fv though? You only need a tap on the bag. I can’t make out how you’ve connected to the fv, did you cut a piece of air lock? If so the tube should fit snugly over that.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The tap on the fermenter cap is the same as what I use on the casks when I connect to the gas bottle, to make it neater I will have to get some new caps for the bags and fit John Guest fittings to a plain cap.



The yellow piece inside the cap is a rawl plug jammed in nice and tight, no gas has ever leaked through the seal it makes.

 

[S.E]

The tap on the fermenter cap is the same as what I use on the casks when I connect to the gas bottle, to make it neater I will have to get some new caps for the bags and fit John Guest fittings to a plain cap.

001.JPG

The yellow piece inside the cap is a rawl plug jammed in nice and tight, no gas has ever leaked through the seal it makes.

Ah ok, I remember now you’ve posted a picture of that before. If you continue filling bags from the fermenter you may be better off drilling another cap to take a grommet and use that for filling the bag with a single piece of pipe that’s easy to clean.

That duct tape will be hard to keep clean or a pain to keep redoing and could cause infections with condensation dropping back in to the fv especially if you reuse your yeast.

Edit: Sorry just reread you post and see you intend to get new caps.

 

[welly2]

If anyone is interested, got an email from this mob http://cfbsonline.co.uk/



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Probably a good time to buy at the moment while the pommy quid is worth next to **** all.

 

[fdsaasdf]

Probably a good time to buy at the moment while the pommy quid is worth next to **** all.

Thanks for sharing, looks like a cracking deal at ~$160 AUD. Unfortunately shipping quote is 126 pounds so almost $400 AUD landed...

 

[Robbo2234]

Bulk buy!

 

[fdsaasdf]

Bulk buy!

If shipping was $100 or less per unit I'd buy one, maybe even two. I could almost certainly find someone else who wants one.

 

[fdsaasdf]

Some quick figures (units, GBP, AUD)

1. 226 ~$365
2. 326 ~$526 (~$273 each)
3. 514 ~$830 (~$276 each)
4. 614 ~$992 (~$248 each)
5. 714 ~$1153 (~$230 each)
6. 902 ~$1457 (~$243 each)
7. 1002 ~$1619 (~$231 each)
8. 1102 ~$1780 (~$223 each)

5 seems like the sweet spot. Another 3 or so folks interested in BNE?

 

[fdsaasdf]

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93906-eoi-importing-beer-engines-from-the-uk-limited-time-offer/ register your interest

 

[Kumamoto_Ken]

Probably a good time to buy at the moment while the pommy quid is worth next to **** all.

Thanks for the link and info welly2.

Does anyone know what one of these weighs? Some quick googling hasn't helped me.

I'm travelling to the UK in March/April, hoping I might be able to fit one in my luggage on the return journey.

 

[welly2]

My folks sent me over my hand pump from the UK last year, it cost then about £40 and it arrived in less than two weeks. If anyone is interested, I'll dig out the shipping agent. I think it was Parcels2Go off the top of my head if someone wants to google it. Weight is roughly 3kg give or take, based on my hand pump.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Just noticed you have reduced the tube over the bag tap down to gas line and a tap above the fv lid. What’s the idea behind that are you going to pressure transfer to a cube?

Used the old grey matter on the second fermenter, found a grommet for 4mm tube fits snugly up the spout of the water carrier, a bit of 'Wet Stuff' smeared on the 6mm tube and a nice tight fit, no more taped joints.

 

[koshari]

A beer engine is your easiest and most expensive option, shipping from the UK will set you back between $80-$150 depending on the seller
Ebay has some every now and then, but the price has seemed to be climbing as of late
Otherwise if you know someone who's in the UK or visting there, you can get them to send/bring one back for you
The cheapest and slightly more involved way is making an engine using a toggle pump from a caravan/RV
Like this http://byo.com/porter/item/346-build-a-beer-engine-projects
the Valterra RP800 pump in that project plus a spare piston/seal kit will set you back around $50 shipped from the US on amazon
A lot of guys on here are using collapsible water containers such as http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/...ner-20L.aspx?pid=114174&menuFrom=571633#Cross
The benefit of the collapsible container is there is little to no oxygen contact, so you don't need to drink the ale quickly like you would have to in a proper cask (unless you're using a respirator, and then it's not real ale afaik)

*edit*
I forgot to mention, the cheapest I've seen one for in Australia is about $200 used but in decent condition

well i have decided to go down the budget path and just pulled the trigger on a Valterra RP800 pump.

there is a local RV supplier on ebay selling them for 60 bucks (75 with postage).
when it comes i will give a run down on it, just need to work out how to attach a sparkler head to it,

something like this,

 

[RobW]

Anybody looked at these: http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/WWROWEQK-beer-engine/7BEER ENGINE

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Reasonable price, had a notification about these as well, no check valve needed and cylinderless.
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/pro...R ENGINE SHAKESPEARE--beer-engine-shakespeare
The sparkler koshari I got mine from bunnings tap spare parts in Bunnings, some sort of aerator.

 

[koshari]

Reasonable price, had a notification about these as well, no check valve needed and cylinderless.
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/VIPRMNCD-new-products/7BEER ENGINE SHAKESPEARE--beer-engine-shakespeare
The sparkler koshari I got mine from bunnings tap spare parts in Bunnings, some sort of aerator.
View attachment 106488

work well does it?