Carbonation

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noss

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Hey guys was just wondering what sugar is best for carbonation in bottles, any help would be much appreciated.
 
You're going to get more different answers than you probably want, each to their own here I think...sugar, dextrose, DME, probably more that I haven't thought of.

Personally I used to just use carb drops, but now bulk prime with dextrose and love it.
 
I've been bulk priming with table sugar (and dark sugar for some) for some time now and love the consistency across bottles - much better than the drops.

But now I've been trying to brew on style - and getting into Belgian styles so starting to go for much higher carbonation - I am struggling to find an authoritative guide for carbonation. I use the following as a first reference only because it has numbers that I can then tweak:

John Palmer's recommendations in How To Brew:

British ales 1.5-2.0
Porter, Stout 1.7-2.3
Belgian ales 1.9-2.4
American ales 2.2-2.7
European lagers 2.2-2.7
Belgian Lambic 2.4-2.8
American wheat 2.7-3.3
German wheat 3.3-4.5

ALES: -- CO2 VOLUMES
Barley Wine:
" Barley Wine -- 1.3 to 2.3

Belgian Specialty:
" Flanders Brown -- 1.9 to 2.5
" Dubbel -- 1.9 to 2.4
" Trippel -- 1.9 to 2.4
" Belgian Ale -- 1.9 to 2.5
" Belgian Strong Ale -- 1.9 to 2.4
" White -- 2.1 to 2.6
" Lambic Gueuze -- 3.0 to 4.5
" Lambic Faro -- ?
" Lambic Fruit -- 2.6 to 4.5

English Bitter:
" English Ordinary -- 0.75 to 1.3
" English Special -- 0.75 to 1.3
" English Extra Special -- 0.75 to 1.3

Scottish Ale:
" Scottish Light -- 0.75 to 1.3
" Scottish Heavy -- 0.75 to 1.3
" Scottish Export -- 0.75 to 1.3

Pale Ale:
" Classic English Pale Ale -- 1.5 to 2.3
" India Pale Ale -- 1.5 to 2.3
" American Style Pale Ale -- 2.26 to 2.78

English & Scottish Strong Ale:
" English Old Ale / Strong Ale -- 1.5 to 2.3
" Strong Scotch Ale -- 1.5 to 2.3

Brown Ale:
" English Brown Ale -- 1.5 to 2.3
" English Mild Ale -- 1.3 to 2.0
" American Brown Ale -- 1.5 to 2.5

Porter:
" Robust Porter -- 1.8 to 2.5
" Brown Porter -- 1.7 to 2.5

Stout:
" Classic Dry Irish -- 1.6 to 2.0
" Foreign Style -- 2.3 to 2.6
" Sweet Stout -- 2.0 to 2.4
" Imperial Stout -- 1.5 tp 2.3

LAGERS:
Bock:
" Traditional German Dark -- 2.2 to 2.7
" Helles Bock -- 2.16 to 2.73
" Doppelbock -- 2.26 to 2.62
" Eisbock -- 2.37

Bavarian Dark:
" Munich Dunkel -- 2.21 to 2.66
" Schwarzbier -- 2.2 to 2.6

American Dark:
" American Dark -- 2.5 to 2.7

Dortmund/Export:
" Dortmund/Export -- 2.57

Munich Helles:
" Munich Helles -- 2.26 to 2.68

Classic Pilsener:
" German Pilsener -- 2.52
" Bohemian Pilsener -- 2.3 to 2.5

American Light Lager:
" Diet/"Lite" -- 2.57
" American Standard -- 2.57
" American Premium -- 2.57 to 2.73
" Dry -- 2.6 to 2.7

Vienna/Oktoberfest/Marzen:
" Vienna -- 2.4 to 2.6
" Oktoberfest/Marzen -- 2.57 to 2.73

MIXED STYLE:
German Ale:
" Dusseldorf-style Altbier -- 2.16 to 3.09
" Kolsch -- 2.42 to 2.73

Cream Ale:
" Cream Ale -- 2.6 to 2.7

Fruit Beer:
" Fruit Ale or Lager -- varies

Herb Beer:
" Herb Ale or Lager -- varies

American Wheat:
" American Wheat Beer -- 2.3 to 2.6

Specialty Beers:
" Ales or Lagers -- varies

Smoked Beer:
" Bamberg-style Rauchbier -- 2.16 to 2.57
" Other styles -- ?

California Common;
" California Common Beer -- 2.4 to 2.8

German Wheat Beer:
" Berliner Weisse -- 3.45
" German-style Weizen (Weissbier) -- 3.6 to 4.48
" German-style Dunkelweizen -- 3.6 to 4.48
" German-style Weizenbock -- 3.71 to 4.74

I'm presuming you're ok with finding a calculator to give CO2 volumes above to grams.
 
The big tweak with bulk priming is the temperature of the beer at the time you bottle vs carbonation temp. That's a little finicky to get right with the calcs, and it often takes longer to carb up (but yes, the results are more consistent).

Brewing software and a reasonably accurate guesstimate (or temp check on final SG reading) will help.
 
i've never bothered to bulk prime, mainly cos i don't have a secondary fermenter. i'm also a bit concerned that one bottle is going to get loaded with sugar while some others don't get any/much at all, which would kill the consistency thing and make bombs.

when transferring into secondary, do you add the sugar/water solution first, then place a tub into the secondary from the primary right down the bottom and then slowly release it, so it swirls/mixes but doesn't splash? do you then bottle immediately? let it rest for a bit?
 
fletcher said:
when transferring into secondary, do you add the sugar/water solution first, then place a tub into the secondary from the primary right down the bottom and then slowly release it, so it swirls/mixes but doesn't splash? do you then bottle immediately? let it rest for a bit?
Pretty much nailed it there...piss easy. Except for the last bit, bottle almost immediately or the sugar will start to settle at the bottom.
 
I use some hot water boiled in the kettle and dissolve the sugar completely (basically I add a little, dissolve until the water can't take anymore, add some more water, dissolve, until there are no granules).

I either add first, or in the middle whilst it is transferring to the secondary vessel.
 
Lord Raja Goomba I said:
I use some hot water boiled in the kettle and dissolve the sugar completely (basically I add a little, dissolve until the water can't take anymore, add some more water, dissolve, until there are no granules).

I either add first, or in the middle whilst it is transferring to the secondary vessel.

Yep definitely use boiled water to dissolve the sugar. Let it cool down for a bit and then put into secondary and rack away. I found normal household white table sugar worked fine. Have tried malt, dextrose but couldn't tell the difference. Have heard over the years lots of stories of carb drops being a bit hit and miss.
 
Carb drops are perfectly fine, used them for ages with no issues at all. They are also very quick and simple, so if that's what you're after then they're great.

Bulk priming just gives you more control if you are using different sized bottles, or want to tweak the carbonation to suit a particular style of beer. I found it takes about the same amount of time as putting two carb drops into 30 bottles though.
 
wbosher said:
Bulk priming just gives you more control if you are using different sized bottles, or want to tweak the carbonation to suit a particular style of beer.
That's why I used to bulk prime. i.e. more for a wheat than an ale. The downside is another vessel to clean.
 
Steve said:
The downside is another vessel to clean.
Not a big downside though. It's not like you've got all the crap at the bottom or a krausen ring to clean. The beer is only in there for a very short time, and it's very easy to clean. I usually just give it a quick hose down as soon as I've finished filling to bottles.
 
1.75 cups water, boiling, add sugar, boil for two minutes to do something sciency, off.

In the fridge to get to ambient or wort temp, into the wort with a vigorous stir, leave to settle for 30 mins to settle out bits (I don't do secondary), start bottling.

In my experience: more control, more consistent, better result over time.
 
Been bulk priming for a few batches now. Pretty much the same as described above with the notable exception that I don't bother waiting for the boiled water/sugar solution to cool down to ambient... it's only the first few hundred mls of wort that will get temp shocked, no big deal, bit of "yeast nutrient" if anything.

Almost always use dextrose as I believe it doesn't contribute any flavor when it ferments, but I have used brown sugar, and would use honey if it suited the style.

As for measurements - there are plenty of online calculators, free phone apps, brewing software that can calculate measures for certain styles / sugars.
 
I've always used carb drops & really can't understand why people say they're inconsistent?

Never had a gusher, flat beer or bottle bomb, EVER.
 
Castor sugar is a very fine sugar. I dissolve it in boiling hot water and then add it to the excess beer I can't keg, bulk priming, before adding to bottles.
 
breakbeer said:
I've always used carb drops & really can't understand why people say they're inconsistent?

Never had a gusher, flat beer or bottle bomb, EVER.
Hey mate, I've never used them, so I can't personally comment. But some people claim they can be of different sizes (?)
 
Fair enough. I must buy the good ones (usually Coopers brand) coz I've even weighed them on mini digi scales & they're almost identical.

Admittedly their might be a few small/broken ones in the pack, so I don't us them

I even use carb drops in my Growler, 5 for a lower carb & 6 for a slightly higher carb
 
wbosher said:
Not a big downside though. It's not like you've got all the crap at the bottom or a krausen ring to clean. The beer is only in there for a very short time, and it's very easy to clean. I usually just give it a quick hose down as soon as I've finished filling to bottles.
I didn't mean its a downside cleaning after you've racked it. Yes, I agree it would be just a simple hose down as theres no gunk. I meant that its another vessel you have to make sure is sanitised prior to racking.
 
Bulk priming is a little more faffing around then using carb drops and I'll admit I still do a bit of both.
I have found half a carb drop works nice for a gentle carb in a 330ml bottle, quick chop chop with the mutha fuckin huge carving knife and there all good, small variances but nothing too much to worry about.
I have found that LDM in the bulk prime gives finer/smaller co2 bubbles than using dex which are a little smaller again than white sugar.....LDM can be hit and miss due to variances in the fermentablity and you need to allow for this when measuring, its usually about 55-60% fermentable so you need to factor this in...ie 100gm Dex = 165-170gm LDM.
Add prime mix to bottom of second vessel along with a sanitised spoon/stirrer, transfer worth without splashing then give a gentle stir every dozen bottles to ensure the sugar mix stay suspended, not that I know that its necessary to stir just a process I picked up from somewhere and it seems to make sense to me that the mix beingheavier it could fall out while bottling and give mixed results. YMMV.
 
I have always used sugar: white, white caster or raw. It takes me about five minutes to carb 23l worth of bottles with a teaspoon and funnel and the beer always tastes great.

Maybe one day I will try something else, but I haven't found a compelling enough reason to complicate matters!
 

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