Carbonating A Lambic

[joshuahardie]

As the title says, I have a lambic that has had 2 years of maturation and the time has come to bottle.
it is insanely clear and any yeast that was in it, has dropped out a long time ago

I have tried a few methods

1. reinoculating with beer from a fermenting brew and adding a dash of sugar - result no carbonation.
2. buying a PET bottle carbonation cap and trying to carb each bottle one by one - result fairly low carbonation and a fault in the cap drained my c02 bottle dry.

I don't really want to keg this and carb it up like i would with another beer, Id prefer to keep my kegs away from the bugs.


Is there anything else you can think of to carbonate this, short of brewing another lambic and blending with young beer and making a gueuze?

Cheers
Josh

 

[raven19]

Whats the current gravity (FG) ?

I would be looking to either:

1. krausen it with a very small portion of fresh wort that contains active yeast (from a clean low bittered beer), or
2. fresh clean yeast (1056/wlp001) and priming sugar

I would not consider the above methods resulting in your brew being a gueuze, as its a very small % of wort being added purely for carbonation (imo).

I would not be CPBF'ing the lambic in anycase, as I have not had good results from longer term storage using CPBF method.

Keen to hear how you approach it and the results.

 

[joshuahardie]

I did try suggestion 1.

I had a ale brewing with Nottingham yeast and pulled a sample out at high krausen, and added approx 50ml to the lambic bottle (550ml)
I wondered if it didn't work due to the alcoholic environment being toxic to the yeast.
It pretty much fell to the bottom of the bottle and despite my shaking has not work.

Ill have to check to fg, but safe to say it is pretty darn low.


Option 2 might be my best bet I would say.... but I was thinking maybe champagne yeast as it may accept the alcoholic environment.

 

[raven19]

Can you keep the bottled sample warmer? Encourage carbonation to occur quicker / shake the bottles gently every day to keep the yeast and priming sugar in suspension, etc..

What is the alcohol % ?

I konw you dont want to, but you could dedicate a keg to funk, add a party tap and enjoy it from the keg fridge as required!?

Just my 2c.

All my funky beers are still in carboys but will have the same dilemma in the coming months no doubt!

 

[dabre4]

To my understanding there isn't really an issue cleaning wild yeast strains from stainless, its just the plastic fermenters that are the problem. I'd bung it in the keg, gas it up, then counter pressure fill to bottles (then throw out all the plastic hoses you used!). A lot of effort, but I recon it would be worth it. Give the keg a good soak in something pretty strong and I doubt you'd have any survivors.

 

[manticle]

My first aged sour beer I simply dissolved US05 in some cooled boiled water and added it to my priming sugar. Was probably 10-12 months old though and you seem to have tried similar with no success.

I'd suggest 2 things - first try adding some kind of high alc tolerant fresh brett strain with some priming sugar to a test sample. Try the champagne yeast in a side by side to see if that works too.

2nd - check with the babblebelt forum as there's loads of experienced lambic/sour/funked brewers there and I'd bet one or more has had similar issues.

 

[Muggus]

From experience with Methode Champenoise wines, which are FAR more un-ideal conditions for yeast, the key is getting a good solid strain, ie Champagne yeast, like EC-1118, with some nutrient and additional sugar, and SLOWLY getting it accustomed to the high alcohol/low pH/low nutrient environment that is a sparkling wine before bottling. And a lambic is quite similar...arguably lower alc, and higher nutrient, so in theory, better!

On top of that, give it some time. In the sparkling wine process, 6-12 weeks is the minimum time you'd wait before a sample, and then, by law in Aus, you wait something like 9 months before it can even be consider Methode Traditional (Champenoise, but not legally of course...).
But of course, here, you run into that problem of big amounts of yeast sediment in bottle, and, as fun as disgorging is, it's ALOT of effort. And very messy!

 

[manticle]

http://babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html...pg=1#1202742167

http://ww2.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread....p;th=1257730473

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Proper lambics are still anyway. From the style guidelines


Mouthfeel: Light to medium-light body. In spite of the low finishing gravity, the many mouth-filling flavors prevent the beer from tasting like water. As a rule of thumb lambic dries with age, which makes dryness a reasonable indicator of age. Has a medium to high tart, puckering quality without being sharply astringent. Virtually to completely uncarbonated.

So if keeping it a "proper" lambic is a goal, then carbonation ceases to be an issue. And if yiu aren't worried about it being an authentic version, then you can just solve the problem by blending it with a younger beer without caring about turning it into a gueuze... Because by fizzing it up in the first place you're already going to be halfway there anyway, so a little further down that track isn't going to make much difference.

Keg it and cpbf - if you do it properly there are no long term storage issues. A bit of bleach and some heat and the bugs will all turn up their toes. Also, you can buy nice stainless versions of the carbonator caps that dont crack.

TB

 

[joshuahardie]

Got hold of my brewing records

OG 1046
FG 1005
5.4% ABV

 

[joshuahardie]

Thanks for those links Manticle.

Considering that I have waiting this long I am not about to stuff it up so the reyeasting test that I have I might leave for a few more weeks to see if I can get anything out of it.

Due to not having CPBF i would prefer to go with the USO5 and sugar method.
It seems to be successful for most people.

Some great advice guys. Ill post some results as soon as I see some progress

 

[joshuahardie]

Thread revival,

I was brewing a sour and after 6 weeks in primary I decided to bottle it, as it was in plastic, and the results from my previously mentioned lambic was that extended time in a plastic fermenter added too much acetic (spelling) so the end result was far too much vinegar

annyyyway

It was bottled like a normal beer with table sugar for carbonation. I have noticed that the beers have developed a pelicle in the bottle that is acting as such a great plug I can turn the beer upsidedown and the pelicle stops any liquid moving in the bottle.

Is a secondary pelicle expected, and is it a case of I should wait for it to drop before I drink it.

 

[manticle]

I've had secondary pellicles in some sours that have been aged much longer.

Have drunk them before and after the pellicle has dropped. Mainly a visual thing to my mind (these were over 12 months in glass) although such a short time relatively with yours that I would expect the yeast and bacteria are still hard at work. Did you measure the gravity? Some of the funk and sour micro-organisms are very slow so watch out for bombs.

Get yourself a glass demijohn and keep the oxygen out for the next one.

 

[joshuahardie]

The gravity was 1.000 at bottling time.

Yeah I need to get some carboys, or similar

They are bottled in champange bottles, and are stored in styrofoam boxes, so hopefully any issues are contained.

 

[manticle]

Probably no issue if it was 1.000. Just let them age (or taste one when carbonated and leave the rest to age)