Candi Syrup & Sugar

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sir_piggy

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Hey All,
I've been looking through a few threads, but still have a few questions. Basically I'm looking at making an extract Dark Belgian Ale using;

* Coopers Amber Malt (1.5L)
* Belgian Candi Rocks (500g)
* Belgain Candi Syrup (100mL)
* WB-06 yeast
* Hops to suit (suggestions very welcome)

(12 litre trail batch)

I'm really wanting a sweet ale with all the amazing aromas that should be coming from all the ingredients. (LHBS advised to toss in half a skinless banana for extra aroma as well)

My real questions are;

1. Does anyone have any thoughts on the above recipe?
2. Is is worth throwing 4x the money at Candi Rocks, when they seem to have the same flavour as raw sugar?
3. Is the syrup a flavour I would use in small quantities (as above) or do you really need to use it as a sugar? Is it also worth using this product or would someone substitute say, Golden Syrup or Treacle, again for almost 1/10th the price?

I'm not trying to be a tightwad, and if I need to spend the extra for a better result than it's not a problem, but if I can save money and get the same result, why not?

Any (and I really mean any) thoughts are really appreciated. ;)

Piggy
 
I've found the D1, D2 type syrups have a flavour that's not in any other type of sugar. I usually make my own candy sugar and hope to make something a little closer to the D2 syrup as it is expensive. If you're only using 100g you'll probably make it go a little way.

However I wouldn't bother with the rocks - make your own to sub in for that.

My method for making candi sugar is as follows:

Take required amount of sugar and place in a dry pot.
Heat until sugar starts to melt. Stir constantly to make sure it doesn't burn until all sugar is syrup rather than dry crystal
Add small amount water, carefully and with pot pointed away from face - it may spit and hot sugar is really nasty
Cook out, watching until sugar is the colour you like. You can invert by adding an acid - I often use a touch of white vinegar, some people use citric acid, I have also successfully used fresh juice from lemon or orange.

When cool, this remains a syrup - I used to just heat water and sugar together and reduce - if cool this forms a toffee that is rock hard.

Other methods: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php...ake_Candi_Sugar and http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-suga...utrient-114837/ and good discussion here: http://forums.morebeer.com/viewtopic.php?f...tart=15#p299986

My understanding is that heating and cooling processes need to be more specific than those many (including myself) follow in order to get the syrup flavours.

To answer your other questions - belgian ales are predominantly yeast driven which means you should use a belgian yeast if you want that character. I have struggled to make mine taste as I want so I may be trying some grists without the yeast, perfecting the balance then subbing in the proper yeast once I'm happy with the recipe but generally belgian ale needs belgian yeast.

Rather than use an amber malt tin, I would use pale malt extract as a base and build up using some cracked crystal grain and maybe some special B. Belgian ales are usually built using pilsner malt and most grain based brews are built using a pale type malt as a base.

As for hops - anything noble seems to suit Belgian - look at styrian goldings or tettnanger or hallertauer. English hops might also work but I'd avoid big american c-hops. For dark ale bitter between 20 and 30 IBU.
 
Thanks heaps for that Manticle ;)

Just a bit further to your reply;

I've found the D1, D2 type syrups have a flavour that's not in any other type of sugar. I usually make my own candy sugar and hope to make something a little closer to the D2 syrup as it is expensive. If you're only using 100g you'll probably make it go a little way.

Would you think that using around 120mLs for a 12 litre batch (5% of the approx 2 kg of fermentables) would be enough to have any influence in the flavour or would you advise to use more?
 
Which syrup? I'm only experienced with the d2 but I would say that 120mL in 12 L of that would be noticeable. Better to start smaller and increase next time if you are doing trial batches rather than overdo it and not be able to drink the results.
 
Looking at using D1 for this batch and maybe D2 as a very subtle enhancement in a stout recipe I'm also coooking in my head. As long as I'm not going to have to throw the whole 500mLs in I'll grab it anyway, start small and add more to taste.

Thanks heaps for your advice with this and many others :icon_cheers:
 
Jus a quick question, please forgive my ignorance

Why did you choose WB-09? Isn't that a wheat beer yeast?

cheers
enuun
 
Jus a quick question, please forgive my ignorance

Why did you choose WB-09? Isn't that a wheat beer yeast?

cheers
enuun

I went for the WB-06 for the aromas that should be coming from the yeast (musty clove, banana and bubblegum). I know this is usually saved for Hefeweissens, but that is the aroma I was looking for to complement the sweet toffee, caramel and fruit flavours of the malt and candi syrup. This is then further balanced with the additions of the hops, to add a bit of dimension. :beerbang:

Anyone have any thoughts on the above concept? Has this been tried or have I struck a style I've not heard of?
 
Hey mate, your beer will be unique, but still very belgian, a lot of crazy flavours in the style, your basically making a belgian specialty/strong amber ale.

I'd like to try help out, may i ask you what belgian beers you really enjoy as it would be good to get a little reference, and find hops to suit your palate.. did you have anything in mind at the moment?

Also I recoment making Belgian Candy Sugar as it's a lot cheaper [2kg for $2.50 vs 500mls $12.50] and if you like belgians you can stock up and also control what kind of flavour you get by (carefully) tasting it in different stages of caramelization.

http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/...ers/candy.shtml is a simple guide to follow
 
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