Candi Sugar vs Syrup

[Kanetoad23]

Hi All,

I have a Trippel receipie that calls for 1kg of Candi Sugar.

I can only find Candi Syrup available from my home brew store, would this be equal to 1lt of Candi Syrup?

Thanks

Kanetoad

 

[manticle]

Pale candy for a tripel.

Or you can just use dextrose. Dark candy syrup is unique in flavour profile and I will always cop the expense for a dubbel or belgian dark but for pale, i'd save the money.

 

[iralosavic]

1L of syrup would equal around 1500g of sugar by my count.

EDIT: Also, I agree with Manticle. A triple is essentially a really strong Belgian Golden Ale, the candi sugar is more about fermentability than complexity of flavour like it is in a Dubbel or BSA.

 

[Nick JD]

Syrup has water in it, so will be heavier than the same sugar-content of dried.

I'd go with 1.3 (wet) = dry.

 

[manticle]

@iralosavic: Doesn't it go the other way? Syrup is sugar + water so you need more syrup to equal the same dry.

 

[iralosavic]

@iralosavic: Doesn't it go the other way? Syrup is sugar + water so you need more syrup to equal the same dry.

haha I should totally have a moderator follow me around and correct my math on days when my brain isn't working either way the fact that it isn't 1:1 was established, which is important!

 

[Kanetoad23]

Thanks guys, that has cleared it up for me

 

[manticle]

Yes worthwhile point.

 

[iralosavic]

I think it just made it more confusing for me - Ross told me the 500ml candi syrups he has weigh 750g (you can see so when you add one to your cart). Surely the bottle itself doesn't contribute the extra 250g? I also picked this up from the Leffe Radiuese recipe going around: "
[SIZE=10pt]370g Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)".[/SIZE]

 

[Nick JD]

If the 500ml bottle contains 750g of candy syrup then it has an SG of 1.500.

If the 500ml volume weighed 9.65kg then you could charge the same price as gold for it, as gold has an SG of 19.3

 

[iralosavic]

Nick if you're trying to make my brain explode then you're doing a good job. Seriously though if the Radieuse calls for 370g, should I just chuck the whole bottle in? Is there a formula going around? I've read that sugar syrup is created by adding 25ml water for every 50g sugar... Which puts both our ideas out the window. Maybe ill revisit when math brain is back.

 

[emnpaul]

It comes down to what Nick said in post 10 of this thread. 1ml of pure water has an SG of 1.000. 1ml=1g. One millilitre of candy syrup with an SG of 1.500 would weigh 1.5g. Therefore 250ml of candy syrup at sG1.500 weighs 375g.

 

[iralosavic]

It comes down to what Nick said in post 10 of this thread. 1ml of pure water has an SG of 1.000. 1ml=1g. One millilitre of candy syrup with an SG of 1.500 would weigh 1.5g. Therefore 250ml of candy syrup at sG1.500 weighs 375g.

Thanks for clarifying, although how do we know what gravity the syrup is - coming up with the correct answer seems to be hinging on this detail. And surely Nick and others use the stuff CB sells...

 

[emnpaul]

The specs for the candi syrups are listed on the CB website in brix/dry extract. There is a handy conversion program here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brix-converter/

If a syrup was listed at 77.5-78.5 brix, average 78, it has an SG of 1.41. Which is not to say that all those sugars are fermentable by brewers yeast. What percentage is fermentable I do not know.

 

[iralosavic]

I would wager that it would be very close to 100% fermentable. So simply divide dry sugar quantity by factor of 1.4 to get appropriate syrup quantity. 375g = 265ml. In the OPs case, if he were using the same syrup, he would need 715ml. See this is back to being the reverse of the general consensus again...

 

[Nick JD]

The dark stuff from CB is supposed to be 100% fermentable, but why would you use it if it was?! It needs to be less than 100% if it's to leave behind some deliciousness.

What it does do is stains the trub really dark - if you pour it in to the fermenter - which is why I prefer to pour it in the boil, as I think it just goes straight to the bottom of the trub and isn't fully utilised.

If a recipe calls for 370g of dry sugar then 500ml of 1.410 syrup is almost perfect.

 

[iralosavic]

The dark stuff from CB is supposed to be 100% fermentable, but why would you use it if it was?! It needs to be less than 100% if it's to leave behind some deliciousness.

What it does do is stains the trub really dark - if you pour it in to the fermenter - which is why I prefer to pour it in the boil, as I think it just goes straight to the bottom of the trub and isn't fully utilised.

If a recipe calls for 370g of dry sugar then 500ml of 1.410 syrup is almost perfect.

So I'm STILL doing the equation backwards? I'm hoping it will click soon when my hangover lifts...

 

[manticle]

Forget the actual numbers for the moment - the principle is simple.

If I have 500g of dry sugar, I have 500g total weight.

If I add 500mL of water to that 500g I have 500g sugar PLUS the weight of 500mL water so to get the same amount of sugar as 500g dry you need more liquid.

Same as when using LME as opposed to DME.

 

[chefeffect]

There is also this to think about:

"Density = mass/volume (ρ=m/V). So V=m/ρ and has units (kilograms)/(kilograms per cubic meter)=cubic meter.

If you are dealing with other units, say pounds, as a unit of weight, 'then 1 kg corresponds to 2.21 lb at sea level in the sense that the weight of 1 kg is 2.21 lb at sea level. Similarly 1 lb corresponds to 453.6 g and 1 oz to 28.35 g' (Beiser, A. Physics, 5th ed, Addison Wesley, 1992)"

Weight and volume is not as simple to calculate as the density and sea level change the equation.

Edit: volume instead of mass whoops

 

[Edak]

People are saying that you should use 500ml because it has the weight of water but they are talking volume not weight, which is incorrect. 500ml might weight 750g,which is way too much.
Perhaps 500g of syrup is more along the lines of correct rather than 500ml.
You should weigh your syrup before you use it, that way you compare weight to weight rather than weight to volume. Put a small container on scales, tare the scale, pour in until you have correct weight, use... If you are concerned about the syrup sticking to your container when using then (if during the boil) dip the container into the wort to get it to wash out.

 

[manticle]

People are saying that you should use 500ml because it has the weight of water but they are talking volume not weight, which is incorrect.

Are they?

 

[Parks]

If I have 500g of dry sugar, I have 500g total weight.

If I add 500mL of water to that 500g I have 500g sugar PLUS the weight of 500mL water so to get the same amount of sugar as 500g dry you need more liquid.

In this situation it's worth noting that if you add 500g of sugar to 500ML/g water (500ML = 500g at 4 deg 1 atmosphere) you'll end up with 1kg in 750ML (estimating).

 

[Nick JD]

If you can answer this you understand the situation:

If something weighs 1kg and occupies 1L, it has an SG of 1.000

If you add 500g of sugar to this 1L, the sugar will dissolve but the volume will remain the same at 1L.

Now the 1L will weigh 1.5kg.

What's its SG?

 

[Parks]

If you add 500g of sugar to this 1L, the sugar will dissolve but the volume will remain the same at 1L.

When dissolving sugar into water it this is not true. Sugar will increase the volume of water.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

If you can answer this you understand the situation:

If something weighs 1kg and occupies 1L, it has an SG of 1.000

If you add 500g of sugar to this 1L, the sugar will dissolve but the volume will remain the same at 1L.

Now the 1L will weigh 1.5kg.

What's its SG?

PICK ME, PICK ME......1.500

 

[GalBrew]

When dissolving sugar into water it this is not true. Sugar will increase the volume of water.

This is true, 1kg of sugar into 1L water will not equal 1L of 1g/ml (100% w/v) sucrose solution.

 

[Nick JD]

When dissolving sugar into water it this is not true. Sugar will increase the volume of water.

Tell me by how much.

1L of water with 500g of sugar dissolved in it will have a volume of _______.

Also, as an aside - tell me the saturation point of sucrose in water.

 

[Parks]

Tell me by how much.

1L of water with 500g of sugar dissolved in it will have a volume of _______.

Also, as an aside - tell me the saturation point of sucrose in water.

LOL - you really have no idea? I take it you've never actually dissolved any significant amount of sugar in water h34r:

It depends on a lot of factors. What form/purity of sugar?

Did you even do a google search before posting?

Here are a few links just to get you started.

http://chanticleersociety.org/forums/p/1480/8574.aspx
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_sugar_still_have_volume_when_it_is_dissolved_in_water

 

[GalBrew]

I frequently make up 30% sucrose solutions (sometimes using white sugar if we run out of the good stuff) to use as a cryoprotectant at work. If you mix 300g of white sugar/sucrose into 1L of water (or in my case buffer) and mix it on a stir plate, you end up with more than 1L. This is a rookie mistake made by new people in the lab. To make up 1L of 30% sucrose you dissolve 300g of sucrose into 500ml (give or take) of your water/buffer and once it is disolved make the solution up to 1L. A subtle difference, but different nonehteless.

 

[Nick JD]

LOL - you really have no idea? I take it you've never actually dissolved any significant amount of sugar in water h34r:

It depends on a lot of factors. What form/purity of sugar?

Did you even do a google search before posting?

Here are a few links just to get you started.

http://chanticleersociety.org/forums/p/1480/8574.aspx
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_sugar_still_have_volume_when_it_is_dissolved_in_water

Thanks, but you haven't told me the answer.

Here's your question again with your added parameters:

1L of pure water with 500g of pure, dry sucrose dissolved in it will have a volume of _______.

I look forward to the answer since you know how to calculate it.

And we can all look forward to knowing that an expert has shown us how far off 1L the volume will be when 500g of sucrose is dissolved in it.

Thanks for doing this for us.