Can i do every thing in my big w pot?

[JoeyJoeJoe]

There has been a LOT of discussion about this previously but the upshot seems to be that if you're going to drink it quickly then the average person may not perceive any difference. Science says flavour stability will suffer over time.

But, seriously, whirlpooling so easy. I don't know what the problem is.

Another good point Bum! I have done some more reading and it looks like you are correct. To try and combat this I am going to cold crash then gelatine 2 days then polyclar it. The polyclar people say that their stuff gets most of the bad flavour stability stuff out (they say it more technically than that)

I should probably highlight the whole point of this method in my mind is that I only have to use one vessel no cleaning up no transfering and I like the idea of fermenting in stainless. If I want to do more than one brew I will buy another pot!

Yes.

The podcast is not the shining beacon of truth people seem to think it is. Try it for yourself for sure but please don't suggest that 'experiment' is either well designed, well carried out or even vaguely conclusive.

I dont know what you would of had them do different? 20 different brewers split a wort one with no trub one with all the trub (top half bottom half if you will) then ferment the same observe bottle and test in a triangle test. Then gather results and send back. It sounds like alot of people even sent samples of each in!

I agree it wasn't conclusive one way or the other and they probably didn't store them long enough to see if flavour stability was an issue. I just think your well designed, well carried out is a bit harsh thats all.

 

[philmud]

That sounds odd to me, maybe because I chill my wort, it's always clear up top. I don't know of a moussey foam.

I chill too, this stuff forms as my wort is coming to the boil and kind of coagulates/clumps as the boil gets more vigorous. I assume this is hot break but I've bolt ever seen my boil. I scoop this out as it starts to coagulate.

 

[QldKev]

It is the same bullshit podcast Nick was always talking about. everyone hears what they want from that thing. If you look at it objectively you realise pretty quickly that this "study's" results are basicly split down the middle and isn't terribly scientific to begin with. The question may as well have been "Do I trust your opinion, semi-random homebrewer?"

Also, $10 says this will be an accepted method amongst a subset of brewers shortly (as predicted previously).

Next thing we will be crushing grains with a coffee grinder and not being able to taste any astringency.

IMHO hot break = bad

 

[manticle]

I dont know what you would of had them do different? 20 different brewers split a wort one with no trub one with all the trub (top half bottom half if you will) then ferment the same observe bottle and test in a triangle test. Then gather results and send back. It sounds like alot of people even sent samples of each in!

I agree it wasn't conclusive one way or the other and they probably didn't store them long enough to see if flavour stability was an issue. I just think your well designed, well carried out is a bit harsh thats all.

Harsh? Odd choice of words. My point is not that they should have done any differently.* My point is that people shouldn't be shouting to the sky that hot break is better considering the results did not actually indicate that. Some people preferred it. Some didn't.

*Although asking random people to do something in an uncontrolled environment and report back with preference while ignoring one of the major downfalls of hot break (long term stability) could definitely be considered a fairly average experiment.

 

[bum]

I should probably highlight the whole point of this method in my mind is that I only have to use one vessel no cleaning up no transfering and I like the idea of fermenting in stainless. If I want to do more than one brew I will buy another pot!

How do you intend to bottle/keg?

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

How do you intend to bottle/keg?

Ok....you got me, I am still going to bulk prime into my bottling bucket.... So I am up to two.

 

[Camo6]

I think bum refers to the fact that the foam that forms isnt hot break. The hot break is more a fine coagulation ( poor description) that is sometimes hardly noticeable. There was a bit of discussion about it a while ago.

Edit: ooops. Slow reply- referring to edak's post above. Got CM2 fingers today.

 

[bum]

Ok....you got me, I am still going to bulk prime into my bottling bucket.... So I am up to two.

I'm not asking because of some sort of vessel related accountancy.

Do you intend to simply tip your finished beer out of the kettle and into another vessel? How do you intend to do this without bottling a bunch of kettle and fermenter trub? How do you intend to make this transfer without oxidising the shit out of your beer?

 

[Sam England]

I've posted it before somewhere, but I did a side by side with the first 5L of a 30L batch in one jar/fermenter and the last 5L plus trub (hops removed with bags and I always skim off as much break material during the boil as possible) in the other and the remaining wort in a larger fermenter as a control. The ratio of wort to trub (chilled so cold break included) is obviously excessive in the second jar, but I wanted a conclusive result. All fermented with the same starter at the same time in the same fridge. Jar 1 and the control tasted the same and Jar 2 had some off flavours. Not a bad beer, but 3 brewing mates and I all picked it as being inferior while doing a blind tasting. I didn't store them long enough for a long term test though so can't comment on the life of the product. Each to their own, as there are plenty of good no-chill beers out there where the whole kettle gets tipped in and maybe the taste we observed is diluted to the point in a whole batch to not be noticeable. FWIW I still chill and leave the break material behind, even though I see the massive benefits of the no-chill process.

Cheers,
BB

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I'm not asking because of some sort of vessel related accountancy.

Do you intend to simply tip your finished beer out of the kettle and into another vessel? How do you intend to do this without bottling a bunch of kettle and fermenter trub? How do you intend to make this transfer without oxidising the shit out of your beer?

Same way as always use my auto-syphon? I will leave us much of the trub on the bottom as possible (hopefully will be pretty compact after gelatine and polyclar?).
I dont see how this is different to how everyone else does it? well unless you are bottle primeing and bottleing straight out of the fermenter? Sorry Bum I may have missed the point.

 

[Edak]

I think bum refers to the fact that the foam that forms isnt hot break. The hot break is more a fine coagulation ( poor description) that is sometimes hardly noticeable. There was a bit of discussion about it a while ago.

Edit: ooops. Slow reply- referring to edak's post above. Got CM2 fingers today.

The foam appears as it heats up (hence the name hot-break) and then drops into the wort during boil and becomes that stringy (protein coagulation) that I referred to as being like egg-drop soup. It's the same thing in a different part of the cycle. I don't get any of that stringy crap in there if I scoop the foam off.

 

[philmud]

Yep, that's my understanding of the foam too, and also why I scoop it off. I used to leave it when I brewed extract and got lots of pale "floaties" in the boil.

 

[bum]

That stuff on top in no way, shape or form makes up all the proteins (and stuff that proteins stick to) that comprise that big bunch of different crap we refer to as hot break. If you think you can remove hot break from the boil you are dreaming.

 

[Camo6]

The foam appears as it heats up (hence the name hot-break) and then drops into the wort during boil and becomes that stringy (protein coagulation) that I referred to as being like egg-drop soup. It's the same thing in a different part of the cycle. I don't get any of that stringy crap in there if I scoop the foam off.

Ok. It was my understanding the two were not directly related but this is probably going off what I've read here. I used to scoop off the foam but rarely do it nowadays as I'm usually flitting around. Haven't noticed a difference but I guess I'm not looking for one for this reason. Will pay close attention in the future. Cheers for the re-education.

 

[Camo6]

That stuff on top in no way, shape or form makes up all the proteins (and stuff that proteins stick to) that comprise that big bunch of different crap we refer to as hot break. If you think you can remove hot break from the boil you are dreaming.

Goddammit! I'm so confused right now. Who ever figured there'd be so much conjecture on the internet.