Can i do every thing in my big w pot?

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Hi guys,

I know I can mash then boil in my pot (want to do a 12l brew) but can I just cool it down chuck some glad wrap over it with a rubber band around it and ferment in it too?

I just listened to a real interesting homebrew show radio thing where they did a big experiment that basically showed the hotbreak/cold break/trub in general had no negative effect on beer in fact it seemed to be good for yeast health...

So can i do it all? Or more to the point should I?

 

[Edak]

unless you link to said evidence of no effect it didn't happen.

It is possible to do what you want, but I don't know whether it will turn out to be any good. why not try and let us know!

 

[Not For Horses]

I've done quite a few brews where the hot and cold break has gone into the fermenter. I haven't noticed any flavours that could be attributed to doing this.
I generally do pretty full flavoured ales though so maybe if you're into pale lagers with little flavour to begin with it might be different.
As far as fermenting in the pot itself, it's stainless steel so fine to use for that purpose.
If you want to brew two weekends in a row though that could be a problem.

 

[Feldon]

With such a small volume you could easily :

• decant the cooled wort into other vessel(s) (eg. couple of sanitised kitchen pots)
• discard the hop and break trub at the bottom of the BigW pot,
• pour wort back into BigW pot,
• pitch yeast

EDIT: nice thing is that the BigW pot should be already sanitised from the earlier boil so can be used as a fermentor

 

[Not For Horses]

I didn't consider hop material. I use a hop bag so I just pull that out at the end.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

unless you link to said evidence of no effect it didn't happen.

It is possible to do what you want, but I don't know whether it will turn out to be any good. why not try and let us know!

Basic brewing
February 23, 2012 - Trub Experiment Results
James and Chris Colby, editor of Brew Your Own magazine, go over the results of the BYO-BBR Collaborative Experiment on kettle trub in the fermenter.

iTunes | Streaming mp3

Sorry on the ipad but if you chuck that in google you will get it

 

[bum]

unless you link to said evidence of no effect it didn't happen.

It is the same ******** podcast Nick was always talking about. everyone hears what they want from that thing. If you look at it objectively you realise pretty quickly that this "study's" results are basicly split down the middle and isn't terribly scientific to begin with. The question may as well have been "Do I trust your opinion, semi-random homebrewer?"

Also, $10 says this will be an accepted method amongst a subset of brewers shortly (as predicted previously).

 

[Edak]

Personally I never get hot break into my fermenter as I scoop that crap out as it comes to boil. I get masses of child break in my kettle and keep most of it out of my fermenter too because of clouds up my finished product. I don't want to waste my whirlfloc.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Bum is right it is a bit either way but the host liked his more with the trub than without. Can't hurt I am going to give it a go.

 

[bum]

Personally I never get hot break into my fermenter as I scoop that crap out as it comes to boil.

Surely this isn't even possible?

 

[bum]

Can't hurt I am going to give it a go.

There has been a LOT of discussion about this previously but the upshot seems to be that if you're going to drink it quickly then the average person may not perceive any difference. Science says flavour stability will suffer over time.

But, seriously, whirlpooling so easy. I don't know what the problem is.

 

[einnebcj]

I do 17l batches in my Big W pot and have scratched my head over whirlpooling with the Big W pot method. I have whirlpooled before but as I no chill by glad wrapping the top of the pot and leaving over night, the trub settles to the bottom and then I tip into the fermenter the pot has not tap. Isn't whirlpooling about pulling the trub down and to the centre of the vessel to keep it away from the tap/edge? Therefore, isn't whirlpooling kinda pointless with the stovetop method?

Sorry for the slight topic hijack......

Chris

 

[bum]

I do 17l batches in my Big W pot and have scratched my head over whirlpooling with the Big W pot method. I have whirlpooled before but as I no chill by glad wrapping the top of the pot and leaving over night, the trub settles to the bottom and then I tip into the fermenter the pot has not tap. Isn't whirlpooling about pulling the trub down and to the centre of the vessel to keep it away from the tap/edge? Therefore, isn't whirlpooling kinda pointless with the stovetop method?

Sorry for the slight topic hijack......

Chris

Possibly, but only if you assume that ALL stovetop brewers no-chill and no-chill in the kettle exclusively (which I personally hope is a bit of a stretch).

 

[technobabble66]

... I get masses of child break in my kettle and keep most of it out of my fermenter too because of clouds up my finished product....

Are we to speculate what "child break" is code for??
Masses of it in the kettle? And it clouds up his beer? Ye gods!
I know where children come from & i'm a bit scared to try Edak's case swap beer now.

It's great he keeps most of it out of his fermenter, though.

Drum roll...
Thank-you

 

[RdeVjun]

isn't whirlpooling kinda pointless with the stovetop method?

Was wondering if this might surface. Yes, presuming that you want to get the wort into another vessel to ferment it, whirlpool in a 19L pot is kind of pointless unless, and its a bit of a stretch, you happen to use a pickup or a syphon hose (generally speaking, no to either) to get the wort out and do so very, very carefully.
Pouring it out though some kind of mesh filter and accepting some kettle trub in the ferment is the usual method for emptying, alternatively a fairly large loss of wort to trub, or perhaps none as per the OP's suggestion. A few gongs in my collection attest to that mesh filter method's effectiveness, however the wort loss approaches zero.

 

[Edak]

Are we to speculate what "child break" is code for??
Masses of it in the kettle? And it clouds up his beer? Ye gods!
I know where children come from & i'm a bit scared to try Edak's case swap beer now.

It's great he keeps most of it out of his fermenter, though.

Drum roll...
Thank-you

Late night, mobile phone, autocorrect on.
Cold break, keep it out of the fermenter, when I let too much in it clouds up beer. I prefer a clearer beer. Nuff said.

 

[Edak]

Surely this isn't even possible?

Why not? I have a fine strainer thing and use it to skim the foamy **** off the top of the wort before it becomes egg drop soup.

 

[philmud]

Why not? I have a fine strainer thing and use it to skim the foamy **** off the top of the wort before it becomes egg drop soup.

I do this too - I'm sure some gets missed, but by the end of a boil I have about 200ml of very dense moussey foam that holds it's form over night.

 

[Edak]

That sounds odd to me, maybe because I chill my wort, it's always clear up top. I don't know of a moussey foam.

 

[manticle]

It is the same ******** podcast Nick was always talking about. everyone hears what they want from that thing. If you look at it objectively you realise pretty quickly that this "study's" results are basicly split down the middle and isn't terribly scientific to begin with.

Yes.

The podcast is not the shining beacon of truth people seem to think it is. Try it for yourself for sure but please don't suggest that 'experiment' is either well designed, well carried out or even vaguely conclusive.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

There has been a LOT of discussion about this previously but the upshot seems to be that if you're going to drink it quickly then the average person may not perceive any difference. Science says flavour stability will suffer over time.

But, seriously, whirlpooling so easy. I don't know what the problem is.

Another good point Bum! I have done some more reading and it looks like you are correct. To try and combat this I am going to cold crash then gelatine 2 days then polyclar it. The polyclar people say that their stuff gets most of the bad flavour stability stuff out (they say it more technically than that)

I should probably highlight the whole point of this method in my mind is that I only have to use one vessel no cleaning up no transfering and I like the idea of fermenting in stainless. If I want to do more than one brew I will buy another pot!

Yes.

The podcast is not the shining beacon of truth people seem to think it is. Try it for yourself for sure but please don't suggest that 'experiment' is either well designed, well carried out or even vaguely conclusive.

I dont know what you would of had them do different? 20 different brewers split a wort one with no trub one with all the trub (top half bottom half if you will) then ferment the same observe bottle and test in a triangle test. Then gather results and send back. It sounds like alot of people even sent samples of each in!

I agree it wasn't conclusive one way or the other and they probably didn't store them long enough to see if flavour stability was an issue. I just think your well designed, well carried out is a bit harsh thats all.

 

[philmud]

That sounds odd to me, maybe because I chill my wort, it's always clear up top. I don't know of a moussey foam.

I chill too, this stuff forms as my wort is coming to the boil and kind of coagulates/clumps as the boil gets more vigorous. I assume this is hot break but I've bolt ever seen my boil. I scoop this out as it starts to coagulate.

 

[QldKev]

It is the same ******** podcast Nick was always talking about. everyone hears what they want from that thing. If you look at it objectively you realise pretty quickly that this "study's" results are basicly split down the middle and isn't terribly scientific to begin with. The question may as well have been "Do I trust your opinion, semi-random homebrewer?"

Also, $10 says this will be an accepted method amongst a subset of brewers shortly (as predicted previously).

Next thing we will be crushing grains with a coffee grinder and not being able to taste any astringency.

IMHO hot break = bad

 

[manticle]

I dont know what you would of had them do different? 20 different brewers split a wort one with no trub one with all the trub (top half bottom half if you will) then ferment the same observe bottle and test in a triangle test. Then gather results and send back. It sounds like alot of people even sent samples of each in!

I agree it wasn't conclusive one way or the other and they probably didn't store them long enough to see if flavour stability was an issue. I just think your well designed, well carried out is a bit harsh thats all.

Harsh? Odd choice of words. My point is not that they should have done any differently.* My point is that people shouldn't be shouting to the sky that hot break is better considering the results did not actually indicate that. Some people preferred it. Some didn't.

*Although asking random people to do something in an uncontrolled environment and report back with preference while ignoring one of the major downfalls of hot break (long term stability) could definitely be considered a fairly average experiment.

 

[bum]

I should probably highlight the whole point of this method in my mind is that I only have to use one vessel no cleaning up no transfering and I like the idea of fermenting in stainless. If I want to do more than one brew I will buy another pot!

How do you intend to bottle/keg?

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

How do you intend to bottle/keg?

Ok....you got me, I am still going to bulk prime into my bottling bucket.... So I am up to two.

 

[Camo6]

I think bum refers to the fact that the foam that forms isnt hot break. The hot break is more a fine coagulation ( poor description) that is sometimes hardly noticeable. There was a bit of discussion about it a while ago.

Edit: ooops. Slow reply- referring to edak's post above. Got CM2 fingers today.

 

[bum]

Ok....you got me, I am still going to bulk prime into my bottling bucket.... So I am up to two.

I'm not asking because of some sort of vessel related accountancy.

Do you intend to simply tip your finished beer out of the kettle and into another vessel? How do you intend to do this without bottling a bunch of kettle and fermenter trub? How do you intend to make this transfer without oxidising the **** out of your beer?

 

[Sam England]

I've posted it before somewhere, but I did a side by side with the first 5L of a 30L batch in one jar/fermenter and the last 5L plus trub (hops removed with bags and I always skim off as much break material during the boil as possible) in the other and the remaining wort in a larger fermenter as a control. The ratio of wort to trub (chilled so cold break included) is obviously excessive in the second jar, but I wanted a conclusive result. All fermented with the same starter at the same time in the same fridge. Jar 1 and the control tasted the same and Jar 2 had some off flavours. Not a bad beer, but 3 brewing mates and I all picked it as being inferior while doing a blind tasting. I didn't store them long enough for a long term test though so can't comment on the life of the product. Each to their own, as there are plenty of good no-chill beers out there where the whole kettle gets tipped in and maybe the taste we observed is diluted to the point in a whole batch to not be noticeable. FWIW I still chill and leave the break material behind, even though I see the massive benefits of the no-chill process.

Cheers,
BB

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I'm not asking because of some sort of vessel related accountancy.

Do you intend to simply tip your finished beer out of the kettle and into another vessel? How do you intend to do this without bottling a bunch of kettle and fermenter trub? How do you intend to make this transfer without oxidising the **** out of your beer?

Same way as always use my auto-syphon? I will leave us much of the trub on the bottom as possible (hopefully will be pretty compact after gelatine and polyclar?).
I dont see how this is different to how everyone else does it? well unless you are bottle primeing and bottleing straight out of the fermenter? Sorry Bum I may have missed the point.