Can Anyone Pls Give Me Some Feedback On This Czech Pils Recipe?

[BeerSwiller]

Hi,

Haven't made a Pils before but wondering if this would be a good one to try?

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Czech Pilsner
Brewer: Justin
Asst Brewer:
Style: German Pilsner (Pils)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 28.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 25.48 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 22.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 8.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 28.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.9 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 84.2 %
11.00 g Southern Cross [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 15.9 IBUs
42.16 g Saaz [4.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 12.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafLager German Lager (DCL/Fermentis #S- Yeast 6 -
0.25 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 3 5.3 %
0.50 kg Munich Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC) Grain 2 10.5 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 4.75 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 12.39 l of water at 71.9 C 65.6 C 75 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 21.37 l water at 75.6 C
Notes:
----

 

[Tim]

That looks pretty good. I don't know if you will need the carapils though. Also add another 500g of pilsner malt to up the gravity a little. Best bet is to make the beer and make changes next time based upon your results as everyone's systems produce different results.

I made a JS Pils clone recently and it was pretty similar although I bittered with Galena and used Saaz B as the 20 min addition. Taste wise it's pretty much spot on, although the JS is a little bit more amber. I have heard that LN use a custom JW malt though that is kilned slightly longer.

 

[Wolfy]

Some useful info on brewing the 'original' here: http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backi....3/urquell.html
(Your BeerSmith should have a style drop down for Bohemian Pils rather than the German Pils you have it set for now, if you ever pay attention to that stuff that is).

If it was me, I'd drop the Munich, increase the gravity, bump up the IBU's to about 40, and split the 20min addition into two.
Something like this:
5.40 kg Pilsner
0.22 kg Carapils
22 g Southern Cross [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
21 g Saaz [4.40 %] - Boil 30.0 min
21 g Saaz [4.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min

If you're feeling adventurous, decoction mash details here: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoc...ouble_Decoction

 

[hockadays]

Id go in the direction of wolfy but sub the carapils with carahell if you have it. And up the two additions of saaz to 30g.

 

[seemax]

as per wolfy for the grist

personally if i was going to brew this as a lager (i usually do the fake-lager thing with US05 @ 15C) i was use wyeast 2001 (urquell)

 

[drsmurto]

Keep it simple.

No need for carapils, go 100% pils malt.

This beer was a cracker - Czech Pilsner

 

[QldKev]

Keep it simple.

No need for carapils, go 100% pils malt.

This beer was a cracker - Czech Pilsner

I recently made a Pils 100% pils malt and just Hallatau for hops, worked out really clean.

QldKev

 

[tavas]

Can't quite tell what yeast you are using. If you want to use a dry yeast i would suggest 2 packets of Saflager 34/70 and ferment at 12*C. Start ferment at this temp and you shouldn't need to do a diacetyl rest. Have done this previously

 

[Florian]

A bit off topic:

Tavas, what's the correlation between pitching low and no diacetyl (or pitching high and diacetyl for that matter)?
Haven't really heard of it before.

 

[Wolfy]

what's the correlation between pitching low and no diacetyl (or pitching high and diacetyl for that matter)?

JZ and JP talk about this in the BCS book and call it a 'Narziss fermentation'.
The idea is to reduce the production of esters and off-flavours at the start of fermentation when the yeast is most active (by pitching and keeping it cool at the start) but to increase the temp and hence the yeast's metabolism toward the end of fermentation so the yeast have more of a chance to clean up their mess. They suggest pitching at 7C and fermenting at 10C and that it should result in a clean beer often without the need for a D-rest.

The 'usual' method (which I think is what Wyeast packs suggest) pitches the yeast warm (20C), which encourages activity and a good quick fermentation however it also encourages the yeast to produce more off-flavors while it is reproducing.

 

[Florian]

Cheers Wolfy.

I mostly brew lagers and usually pitch around 6 degrees and ferment at 10 with most lager yeasts, to avoid esters as you mentioned.
I somehow was under the assumption though that diacetyl was not one of these esters prduced at higher temperatures, but rather something that could hit your beer regardless of temperature, at least as long as it's below the usual diactyl rest temp. I therefore always give a few days at 18-20 degrees before lagering.

Might have to do some more reading.

 

[dent]

Consider using Bohemian Pils or Floor Malted Boh Pils if you can get it. There is a difference worth having and the price is pretty much the same.

Add my vote to the keep it simple camp - 100% pils is good, maybe 1% melanoidin if you like that sort of thing. Avoid sulfates and water hardness in general.

 

[Nick JD]

Consider using Bohemian Pils or Floor Malted Boh Pils if you can get it. There is a difference worth having and the price is pretty much the same.

Add my vote to the keep it simple camp - 100% pils is good, maybe 1% melanoidin if you like that sort of thing. Avoid sulfates and water hardness in general.

+1

Got to be the right grain (it's a different variety of grain than other Pilsners).

And pour yourself a Urquell ... bugger me if there ain't some serious decoction action happening there - not pale at all. Make a 100% Boh Pils grain without decoctions and you'll get something that looks like Miller Genuine Draft. No decoctions means it cries out for some Melanoidin.

 

[drsmurto]

+1

Got to be the right grain (it's a different variety of grain than other Pilsners).

And pour yourself a Urquell ... bugger me if there ain't some serious decoction action happening there - not pale at all. Make a 100% Boh Pils grain without decoctions and you'll get something that looks like Miller Genuine Draft. No decoctions means it cries out for some Melanoidin.

It's not often i agree with Nick but a decoction, to my taste, is the difference between a good bo pils and a great bo pils.

There are those who decry decoctions as pointless as malts are modified enough to not warrant them but the extra dimension you get to the malt flavour from a decoction means i wont brew a pilsner without one. :icon_drool2:

 

[tavas]

A bit off topic:

Tavas, what's the correlation between pitching low and no diacetyl (or pitching high and diacetyl for that matter)?
Haven't really heard of it before.

Pretty much as Wolfy said. The idea is to pitch at a lower temp to minimise off flavours, but that stresses the yeast as their metabolism is low at lower temps. So compensate by "overpitching". Mr Malty's calculator will help, but for dried yeast the rule of thumb is two packs at 12*C.

 

[juzz1981]

Consider using Bohemian Pils or Floor Malted Boh Pils if you can get it. There is a difference worth having and the price is pretty much the same.

Add my vote to the keep it simple camp - 100% pils is good, maybe 1% melanoidin if you like that sort of thing. Avoid sulfates and water hardness in general.

Actually using BB Pale Malt, which I assume is a 'Pilsner' Malt?

 

[juzz1981]

It's not often i agree with Nick but a decoction, to my taste, is the difference between a good bo pils and a great bo pils.

There are those who decry decoctions as pointless as malts are modified enough to not warrant them but the extra dimension you get to the malt flavour from a decoction means i wont brew a pilsner without one. :icon_drool2:

I have never done a decoctions mash so could I just add some melanoidin malt to get the 'same' type result?

 

[juzz1981]

as per wolfy for the grist

personally if i was going to brew this as a lager (i usually do the fake-lager thing with US05 @ 15C) i was use wyeast 2001 (urquell)

I have plenty of 1056 slurry, I could do a pseudo lager @ 15c if that would give OK results

 

[dent]

Actually using BB Pale Malt, which I assume is a 'Pilsner' Malt?

Not really suitable for a czech pils. Not very tasty.

 

[drsmurto]

I have never done a decoctions mash so could I just add some melanoidin malt to get the 'same' type result?

To my taste melanoidin doesn't give the same flavours as a decoction.

Close but no cigar.

Decoctions really aren't that hard, they just take time.