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Can 10% Crystal Turn An Apa Into An English Real Ale?

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Deebo

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Just had a taste of an 'APA' I knocked up quickly to fill some empty kegs and it has a very strong caramel/toffee kind of flavour and almost none of the C type hops are showing through like I would normally expect. (Reminds me of some of the real ales I had when in london, mainly one of the badger ones)

Not a bad brew but not what I was expecting. Do you think it was due to 10% crystal or perhaps not enough 0 min hops?

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 31.24 l
Post Boil Volume: 27.04 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 l
Bottling Volume: 19.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 18.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 35.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 80.5 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) ( Grain 1 85.7 %
0.50 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 2 9.5 %
0.25 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 3 4.8 %
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 4 12.3 IBUs
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 5.7 IBUs
15.00 g Centennial [8.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 6.5 IBUs
15.00 g Citra [13.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 10.8 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 8 -
10.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
10.00 g Centennial [8.30 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
10.00 g Citra [13.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 12 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.25 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 34.45 l of water at 70.1 C 66.7 C 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 7 min 75.6 C 10 min

Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
------
21-1-12 used carbon/sediment filtered water

Mash temp 66.7 (strike 70.3) nd of mash 65.3c
Preboil volume 31.4L 10.5 brix
Postboil 26.5L 12 Brix
 

felten

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No-chilling?
 

black_labb

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Being a bit pedantic but real ale isn't a style, it's a set of guidelines the same way the reinsgobotfleigenhoffenhoo is in germany (I couldn't think of the exact spelling so decided to get it proper wrong).

I had an apa that was heavy on the crystal that ended up less malt forward, but it just ended up like an american amber. I don't know what happened with the brew. did you overpitch the yeast somehow (pitching onto a full yeast cake maybe? that can strip the hop flavour a bit.
 

Steve@PMF82

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With that much crystal and OG, me personally, in an APA would be aiming for at least 45ibu, at least 2g/L hops at FO and possibly some dry hops.

I find JW pilsner a little sweet to begin with as well.

My 2 cents
 

Ross

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As beer4u has posted the beer looks a little unbalanced. IMHO higher IBU's needed & definitely more flame out/dry hopping.
Also a strong possibility that you have a diacetyl problem, which gives the beer a buttery, caramely, butterscotch flavour.

cheers Ross
 

Deebo

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It was no chilled, so slightly higher ibu that the recipe states (also less flavour/aroma from the late hops). I have no chilled all my brews so far and havent had a problem with lack of hop flavour.
Not certain but I may have pitched an extra packet of us-05 which may have contributed also.

Maybe a combination of less late hops, more crystal and overpitching yeast. Is still an enjoyable beer but just found it odd that I couldn't really pick any of the C hops which are normally pretty noticable.

Edit: I original thought possibly was diacetyl. My tastebuds are untrained at picking flavours/faults in beer, I do taste butterscotch/caramel/toffee kind of flavour but wouldnt say it has a butter/buttered popcorn flavour. If this is the brew I am thinking of there was no activity from the yeast after a day and a half so I pitched another packet of us-05 which may explain diacetyl if this is the taste it has?
 

Steve@PMF82

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If this is the brew I am thinking of there was no activity from the yeast after a day and a half so I pitched another packet of us-05 which may explain diacetyl if this is the taste it has?
With that much lag time could very well be the case, get some liquid yeast next time if you can, then make a starter.
With healthy yeast you would have had a nice clean fermentation and the resulting beer , still unbalanced IMO, but would have been a hell of a lot better.
 

argon

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i concur with the thought about the overbalance with crystal. It's probably sitting as an Amber now. Just enjoy it for what it is and move on. Next time, if you want and APA, jut cut the crystal down and that will probably be enough.
 

brucearnold

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... get some liquid yeast next time if you can, then make a starter.
Or properly rehydrate the dry yeast if you don't want to, or have the time or equipment to make a starter from a liquid yeast.
 

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