Calcium Carbonate In Water

[katzke]

Calcium Carbonate in water

adding it to water that will be carbonated

OK all you science types I have a question. I know that Calcium Carbonate will not dissolve in tap water, or at least not enough. I have been adding it to my soda water and the boiled water is just cloudy and if I leave the kettle to cool it just settles as a film to the bottom of the kettle. What I was thinking is to just add it when I pour the chilled water in the keg. So far it seems to be dissolving when I add the CO2.

Question is, will it make any difference if I add it when I pour the cooled water in the keg? I assume that boiling it makes not difference to the calcium part and it is still just Calcium Carbonate until it reacts with the CO2. That is the part I am not sure of. Does boiling the Calcium Carbonate make any difference to the final outcome.

And yes I could probably just add Baking Soda but I want the extra Calcium and not the extra Sodium.

If it makes any difference here is what I am doing. Adding Epsom Salt, Chalk, Calcium Chloride, and Gypsum to get a profile that looks something like this.

Ca 111ppm
S04 102ppm
Mg 16ppm
Na 13ppm
Cl 104ppm

 

[Fourstar]

afaik, the pH of the water needs to be low for the minerals/salts to readily dissolve . E.g. mash pH of say 5.7 compared to direct from the tap (usually 7).

You would want to drop the pH of the water somehow (e.g. lactic acid?!) then dissolve. The Carbonates will increase the alkalinity as they dissolve so they will also reduce the ability of other minerals to readily dissolve. (like how you get chalkiness on taps etc with rather hard water.)

Be interested to know how todo this easily as it would be good to make a mineral water every now and again.

 

[drsmurto]

Adjust the pH to ~5 with citric acid.

EDIT - as 4star said, calcium carbonate does not dissolve in water until the pH drops to mash pH or lower. Boiling the water doesn't change that (much).

 

[katzke]

When the water is Carbed the Calcium Carbonate dissolves or said a different way Calcium Carbonate reacts with the CO2 and is dissolved in the water. That is how water exposed to chalk in the ground ends up with high alkalinity. Least that is what everything I have read on the subject has said.

I just wanted to know what method would be best. Boiling the chalk in the water with everything else or adding when I dump the water in the keg.

Remember we are not talking beer we are talking carbonated water.

 

[drsmurto]

When the water is Carbed the Calcium Carbonate dissolves or said a different way Calcium Carbonate reacts with the CO2 and is dissolved in the water. That is how water exposed to chalk in the ground ends up with high alkalinity. Least that is what everything I have read on the subject has said.

I just wanted to know what method would be best. Boiling the chalk in the water with everything else or adding when I dump the water in the keg.

Remember we are not talking beer we are talking carbonated water.

You could adjust the pH to 5 - 5.5 using orthophos acid which IIRC is the acid is coke.

yes, i realise its for drinking, not brewing.

Boiling calcium carbonate in water wont help it dissolve, boiling water doesnt change the pH and at pH 7 (or whatever you water supply is) calcium carbonate does not dissolve.

 

[Fourstar]

Boiling calcium carbonate in water wont help it dissolve, boiling water doesnt change the pH and at pH 7 (or whatever you water supply is) calcium carbonate does not dissolve.

AFAIK, Boiling Carbonate with Calcium induces O2 into the water, consequently causing the Carbonates to percipitate out. In other words if oyu already have carbonate rich water, this will boil out chalk onto your pot/kettle.

I guess the only real solution is to make Calcium, magnesium and Sulfate rich water and a seperate Carbonate Magnesium Sulfate water. If you attempt to blend them, the carbonates will percipitate out, unless you drop the pH as noted.

Maybe you could use some 5.2 solution? does that work on water only?

 

[katzke]

Well I did it just like last time. Add the Chalk at the end of the boil to make sure any bugs are dead and let the covered pot cool on the stove. Give it a stir before adding it to the keg. Yes it is cloudy but when charged with CO2 it clears. No sediment in the bottom of the keg that I saw and never have had a cloudy first pour like with beer.

I do not want to add acid, as part of the reason to treat the water is to make it healthy. CO2 and water already make carbonic acid and too much carbonated water is not supposed to be good for you. One reason why the chalk dissolves in the carbed water. I am still looking for the ideal water recipe. I even looked at the WHO and while they agree desalinated water is bad for people they have no recommendations as to how to fix it. Not that I expect any more from the UN.

 

[katzke]

AFAIK, Boiling Carbonate with Calcium induces O2 into the water, consequently causing the Carbonates to percipitate out.

Funny, I thought that boiling water was a good way to de-oxygenate it. Isnt that why we oxygenate our cooled wort, to replace the O2 we boiled off?

 

[Fourstar]

Funny, I thought that boiling water was a good way to de-oxygenate it. Isn't that why we oxygenate our cooled wort, to replace the O2 we boiled off?

I believe it has something todo with exposing the Carbonates to oxygen as the boil is rolling.

Taken from how to brew:

Carbonate can be precipitated (ppt) out as Calcium Carbonate (CaCO₃) by aeration and boiling according to the following reaction: 2HCO₃^-1 + Ca⁺² + O₂ gas --> CaCO₃ (ppt) + H₂O + CO₂ gas
where oxygen from aeration acts as a catalyst and the heat of boiling prevents the carbon dioxide from dissolving back into the water to create carbonic acid.