Quantcast

Buying Air

Aussie Home Brewer

Help Support Aussie Home Brewer:

wavemaker

Well-Known Member
Joined
12/7/09
Messages
55
Reaction score
5
Gooday folks. My mate and I were just having a yarn about flushing our kegs,lines and taps. We were speculating on using an air compressor to pressurize the keg and then blow half a keg of hot water and cleaning agent through to clean the system out. We talked about using the air that we use to push the beer out to do this, as we have been doing, and how at $26 a bottle re-fill, it's an expensive way of doing it. Can anyone advise on how they cope with this particular issue. Can we go out and get a big bottle, say between 4 of us and use that? Other options? Any help most appreciated.
 

MHB

Well-Known Member
Joined
1/10/05
Messages
5,996
Reaction score
3,436
Location
Newcastle
I always find this sort of thing interesting so just for fun lets say you pressurised an empty Corne keg to 250kPa how much gas is that?
This is a pretty straight forward way to work it out http://www.ehow.com/how_8386771_calculate-...ioxide-gas.html
1/ 19L (0.019m^3)*250,000 = 4750
2/ say we are at 20oC (293.15K) then 4750/293.15 = 16.2
3/ divide by the gas constant 16.2/8.3145 = 1.95 Moles of CO2
4/ times the molecular weight (44) 1.95*44 = 86g of CO2
5/ well I charge $8/Kg for CO2 so $8/1000*86 = 69cents

I just find being able to grab the CO2 bottle with all the connections in place, knowing that the gas is clean (probably sterile), that its highly portable and a lot easier than running around finding the connections for the compressor plugging it in waiting for it to pressurise and listening to it chugging away. At 70 cents we are hardly talking poverty inducing, by the time you look at electricity to run the compressor, factor in the lifecycle cost of the compressor, the fact that you will (should) purge the keg with CO2 before you use it, frankly I couldnt be arsed.
Mark
 

stux

Hacienda Brewhaus
Joined
15/12/09
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
310
I always find this sort of thing interesting so just for fun lets say you pressurised an empty Corne keg to 250kPa how much gas is that?
This is a pretty straight forward way to work it out http://www.ehow.com/how_8386771_calculate-...ioxide-gas.html
1/ 19L (0.019m^3)*250,000 = 4750
2/ say we are at 20oC (293.15K) then 4750/293.15 = 16.2
3/ divide by the gas constant 16.2/8.3145 = 1.95 Moles of CO2
4/ times the molecular weight (44) 1.95*44 = 86g of CO2
5/ well I charge $8/Kg for CO2 so $8/1000*86 = 69cents

I just find being able to grab the CO2 bottle with all the connections in place, knowing that the gas is clean (probably sterile), that its highly portable and a lot easier than running around finding the connections for the compressor plugging it in waiting for it to pressurise and listening to it chugging away. At 70 cents we are hardly talking poverty inducing, by the time you look at electricity to run the compressor, factor in the lifecycle cost of the compressor, the fact that you will (should) purge the keg with CO2 before you use it, frankly I couldnt be arsed.
Mark
Last time I cleaned 12 kegs, requiring 3 flushes

1) PBW
2) Rinse
3) Starsan

That's pushing the fluid from one, to the next, to the next etc...

Which means I dispensed 36 kegs worth. Which means I didn't dispense 36 kegs of beer.

Call it 12 if you want.


It makes a significant dent in the gas. And with a garden sprayer it doesn't
 

Malted

Humdinger
Joined
15/5/10
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
115
Usually I open the lid of the keg for cleaning purposes. :lol:
Zero cents of Carbon Dioxide used.
 

Malted

Humdinger
Joined
15/5/10
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
115
Is anyone else concerned about the OP referring to Carbon Dioxide as air?
 

drsmurto

Well-Known Member
Joined
5/12/06
Messages
5,071
Reaction score
528
Location
Northern Adelaide Hills
Last time I cleaned 12 kegs, requiring 3 flushes

1) PBW
2) Rinse
3) Starsan

That's pushing the fluid from one, to the next, to the next etc...

Which means I dispensed 36 kegs worth. Which means I didn't dispense 36 kegs of beer.

Call it 12 if you want.


It makes a significant dent in the gas. And with a garden sprayer it doesn't
What are you doing to your kegs requiring them to be filled with PBW then water then starsan (your comparison requires that they are completely full of liquid to then require a full equivalent of gas to dispense which sounds like massive overkill)?

I empty mine after use, rinse with water, push some through the diptube then drain. If there is crud on the bottom in goes a small amount of hot water and wave a brush at it. If after that it is still dirty then out comes the PBW and that usually only requires a few cms of liquid at the bottom. A minimal amount of gas is used in this process to push small volumes through the diptube.
 

nathan_madness

Well-Known Member
Joined
7/5/12
Messages
385
Reaction score
104
I just use a kettle full of boiling hot water. Pour it into the keg add PBW seal keg shake and there is enough steam pressure built up inside to clean the dip tubes and line, repeat twice with boiling water no PBW to finish.
 

DU99

Well-Known Member
Joined
7/6/10
Messages
6,883
Reaction score
1,081
Location
Deer Park.Victoria
me..degass empty keg ,rinse the dregs out,then fill with water and use sodium mix ,leave for awhile gas up keg enough to push thru beer line,flush keg out with water then sanitizer.
 

hsb

Worth waiting for
Joined
6/7/10
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
49
Is anyone else concerned about the OP referring to Carbon Dioxide as air?
Carbon Dioxide is airious, it's what is it in its airious form. In its waterous form, it was popular in the 80s.

I agree about the tiny cost involved and the hassle of swopping lines, plus the false economy of setting up a.n.other solution, but if you have a massive, dirty drinking problem?

If you do buy air, make sure it's fresh.

 

mxd

Well-Known Member
Joined
26/10/09
Messages
2,434
Reaction score
212
Last time I cleaned 12 kegs, requiring 3 flushes

1) PBW
2) Rinse
3) Starsan

That's pushing the fluid from one, to the next, to the next etc...

Which means I dispensed 36 kegs worth. Which means I didn't dispense 36 kegs of beer.

Call it 12 if you want.


It makes a significant dent in the gas. And with a garden sprayer it doesn't

now I'm confused, you clean kegs with co2 ?

to clean kegs (I wait till I have 4 or so empty), I fill bath with hot water, add sodium perc, put in submersible pump that has gas and beer connects on, take lid off and run it for 20 minutes swap to next keg.

I then rinse keg, add 1 ltr hot water and starsan, lid on shake, glad wrap over connects and put in garage to ready to fill.

For line cleaning I put some sodium perc in a keg, get some gas from an empty dirty keg then pour through lines/taps etc..
 
Joined
27/11/11
Messages
1,736
Reaction score
1,002
Location
Woof Woof
I have never used an air compressor to do it and I'm happy to keep it that way. Air compressors can harbour nasty sh!t like oil.
Why not just mix some napisan and hot water, enough co2 to push it through your lines, let it sit overnight, flush with fresh water, sanitise?
 

stux

Hacienda Brewhaus
Joined
15/12/09
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
310
now I'm confused, you clean kegs with co2 ?
nope, not anymore


to clean kegs (I wait till I have 4 or so empty), I fill bath with hot water, add sodium perc, put in submersible pump that has gas and beer connects on, take lid off and run it for 20 minutes swap to next keg.
yep, an alternative is to half fill a keg with your pbw sodiumperc solution through the gas in, let soak, then up end... let soak... then run the liquid out the liquid out into the next kegs gas in.

Probbaly uses less pbw than a bath

I then rinse keg, add 1 ltr hot water and starsan, lid on shake, glad wrap over connects and put in garage to ready to fill.
and once you've worked out how to get the liquid out of one keg up its liquid out, and into the next kegs gas in, without using gas, then you might as well do the same with the rinse and starsan.


For line cleaning I put some sodium perc in a keg, get some gas from an empty dirty keg then pour through lines/taps etc..
Yep, and for line cleaning I use the same garden sprayer and just force whatever liquid I want through the lines

no gas needed, and no need to find an empty keg.


And yes,dispensing half a keg of liquid requires pretty close to the same amount of gas as dispensing a whole keg of beer. You need to pressurize the headspace to dispense pressure before it really starts moving.

Hence why I called it 12 kegs, even though I used 36 transfers.

And no, I don't do this all the time, whcih is why I ended up doing the 12 kegs at once. Had a massive party, and decided to clean most of the keg army since they were all empty. BUT if I have a bunch of kegs, especially if they haven't been cold stored since emptying, then I will do the pbw/rinse/starsan process.

If I'm lucky though I can just take a keg out of the fridge after its blown (recently), rinse and fill.
 

wavemaker

Well-Known Member
Joined
12/7/09
Messages
55
Reaction score
5
I always find this sort of thing interesting so just for fun let's say you pressurised an empty Corne keg to 250kPa how much gas is that?
This is a pretty straight forward way to work it out http://www.ehow.com/how_8386771_calculate-...ioxide-gas.html
1/ 19L (0.019m^3)*250,000 = 4750
2/ say we are at 20oC (293.15K) then 4750/293.15 = 16.2
3/ divide by the gas constant 16.2/8.3145 = 1.95 Moles of CO2
4/ times the molecular weight (44) 1.95*44 = 86g of CO2
5/ well I charge $8/Kg for CO2 so $8/1000*86 = 69cents

I just find being able to grab the CO2 bottle with all the connections in place, knowing that the gas is clean (probably sterile), that it's highly portable and a lot easier than running around finding the connections for the compressor plugging it in waiting for it to pressurise and listening to it chugging away. At 70 cents we are hardly talking poverty inducing, by the time you look at electricity to run the compressor, factor in the lifecycle cost of the compressor, the fact that you will (should) purge the keg with CO2 before you use it, frankly I couldn't be arsed.
Mark
Thanks, that's a good reply. I would have thought it obvious what I meant. Flushing the lines/taps and so forth. Duh!
 
Top