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Bsp Measurements, Someone Set Me Straight!

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Impy

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Ok so I'm searching far and wide for the parts required for my weldless sightglass, heating element locknut, ball valve etc and BSP measurements are thoroughly confusing me.

I bought this 1" BSP threaded element. Measuring it I found it's NOT 1" it's 1&1/4" (~32mm) I was about to write a stern letter to the supplier saying his product description was wrong... but it seems 1" BSP really means 1&1/4 or 33mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_stand...pe_thread_sizes



I've also got outer diameter 1/2 inch polycarbonate tubing for a sight glass. But a 1/2inch connector I bought which would screw into a 1/2inch TEE is VASTLY larger than 12.7mm (the actual size of 1/2inch)







What the hell is going on?! Even if 1/2inch BSP connectors measures the smallest internal diameter of the pipe, it's still way WAY larger than 1/2inch.

Can someone offer some sage plumbing advice? I'd like to order parts online since getting them from stores is such a hassle, but I don't want to buy a bunch of useless parts that don't fit.

Thanks in advance!
 

Wolfy

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BSP and NPT measurements started being a measure of the INTERNAL thickness of a threaded pipe of that size.
Now they are just a standard number, they don't really mean anything that you can specifically measure.

All fittings of the same size should screw together, but you'll also find that different fittings, from different places have different thicknesses and lengths and there is no 'standard' uniform size (which is what you seem to be seeking).

As an example, these are all 1/2 inch elbows, but each is a different size, lenght and wall thickness:


(More photos, details and rant in my blog, see link below).

In your case, I'd suggest the best thing is to not shop online, but take your fittings, tube and stuff to a dedicated shop (like Geordi or ProChem if you were in Melb), and find and fit the required fittings while you are there.
 

pk.sax

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Get a 1/2" bsp to 1/2" pipe compression fitting. Chrome plated from the green shed or SS from CB or Beerbelly.

That will fit your polycarbonate tube perfectly. It will also screw right into any female 1/2" bsp elbow fitting you use to connect to the vessel.

As with the element, yeah, I think you have it right. Thanks for doing the research :)

Edit: dang phone.
 

pk.sax

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Ps: do you realise what you've started by linking that heating element up there?!

This retailer will be getting hundreds of thousands of AHB hits and one element purchases. $36 delivered is cheap as! And almost plug and play ESP if wiring it into a temp controller.
 

punkin

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Ps: do you realise what you've started by linking that heating element up there?!

This retailer will be getting hundreds of thousands of AHB hits and one element purchases. $36 delivered is cheap as! And almost plug and play ESP if wiring it into a temp controller.
Can't see the link. please show me?


1/2" ect is the nominal bore of the pipe. It has ought to do with thread sizes. If you are plumbing you wouldn't want a thread that connected to a pipe to be the same size as the od of the pipe, the id would be miniscule.
 

pk.sax

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Yea, I'm thinking of bending. The hole in my keggle is fairly higher than it need be so I wanted to bend the element to be lower.

Did the hole higher in case I need to gas power the HLT to not damage the electrics. Will see how this goes.
 

Impy

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BSP and NPT measurements started being a measure of the INTERNAL thickness of a threaded pipe of that size.
Now they are just a standard number, they don't really mean anything that you can specifically measure.

All fittings of the same size should screw together, but you'll also find that different fittings, from different places have different thicknesses and lengths and there is no 'standard' uniform size (which is what you seem to be seeking).

As an example, these are all 1/2 inch elbows, but each is a different size, lenght and wall thickness:


(More photos, details and rant in my blog, see link below).

In your case, I'd suggest the best thing is to not shop online, but take your fittings, tube and stuff to a dedicated shop (like Geordi or ProChem if you were in Melb), and find and fit the required fittings while you are there.
The thing is the connector pictured above would be equivalent to a threaded pipe screwing into a reportedly 1/2inch TEE. The thing is, even the internal diameter is waaayyyy off 1/2 inch (it's 15mm). It seems that no fitting/pipe external or internal measurements in any 1/2inch BSP item is anywhere near actually 1/2 an inch.

It must be an oddity carried over from some ye olde plumbing speak.

I think I'll have a look into 1/4 inch TEEs since they seem to have an ID if close to ACTUALLY 1/2 an inch.

[edit] OH and yeah, i'm attempting to bend the element. I'll report back if it works.

[edit2] And once I get the sight glass worked out i'll be happy to pass on the leftovers of the polycarbonate pipe.. I've got 3m of the stuff
 

billygoat

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BSP and NPT PIPE fittings are measured internally, ie - if you were to measure your heating element from the valley of the thread on one side, to the valley of the thread directly opposite, it will measure very close to 1 inch. Or if measuring pipe, it is the internal measurement you are interested in.
But, if you are talking about TUBE fittings, such as your poly carbonate tube or copper tubing, you have to measure the outside diameter (OD).
So, if you want a fitting to suit 1/2 inch polycarbonate tube to mount a sight glass, you will need a 1/2 inch compression fitting with probably a 1/2 inch BSP threaded elbow.
 

pk.sax

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Impy, most 1/2" bsp fittings sold here happen to be meant for 15 mm tube. The male thread on the outside is the standard 1/2" bsp, the internal pipe is 15mm.
A female 1/2" bsp thread will work like 1/2" bsp (whatever the table refers that actually is).
This is why it's better to use a tube to thread adapter to get exact. I use a 90 degree elbow that is threaded on one side and a comp fitting on the other.

Ps: if you do end up with leftover polycarbonate tube, I'll be happy to pay for a piece :)
 

treefiddy

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I was planning to get a kettle up and running this weekend made from an 18 gallon keg.

I purchased two of the above elements, which should fit well. They arrived very quickly and look pretty good.

Unfortunately, I've had the same issue as Impy.

I took the hour trip to Geordi after work for some 1" BSP locknuts, but when I got home I realised they didn't quite fit (seemed to screw on a few threads).
Then I found this thread and took the same long trip again after work today for some 1.25" lock nuts.

The 1.25" nuts are way too big! the element is about 33 mm in diameter whereas the nut is probably 39!
The only thing I can think of is that the 1" lock nut was not a BSP thread type, or the stamp of my current lock nut "1 1/4 - 150" means something different to just 1 1/4.

Can anybody please advise me on what has gone wrong?
 

Maheel

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pk.sax

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treefiddy said:
I was planning to get a kettle up and running this weekend made from an 18 gallon keg.

I purchased two of the above elements, which should fit well. They arrived very quickly and look pretty good.

Unfortunately, I've had the same issue as Impy.

I took the hour trip to Geordi after work for some 1" BSP locknuts, but when I got home I realised they didn't quite fit (seemed to screw on a few threads).
Then I found this thread and took the same long trip again after work today for some 1.25" lock nuts.

The 1.25" nuts are way too big! the element is about 33 mm in diameter whereas the nut is probably 39!
The only thing I can think of is that the 1" lock nut was not a BSP thread type, or the stamp of my current lock nut "1 1/4 - 150" means something different to just 1 1/4.

Can anybody please advise me on what has gone wrong?
I never did find out what nut to fit on them....

fwiw, 1" BSP & the one that comes with the keg king element did not fit. My next stop was to look up a plumbing shop for whatever nut goes on a HWS, since these elements are meant to be for that... Got disinterested and sidetracked.
 

Feldon

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Impy said:
Ok so I'm searching far and wide for the parts required for my weldless sightglass, heating element locknut, ball valve etc and BSP measurements are thoroughly confusing me.

I bought this 1" BSP threaded element. Measuring it I found it's NOT 1" it's 1&1/4" (~32mm) I was about to write a stern letter to the supplier saying his product description was wrong... but it seems 1" BSP really means 1&1/4 or 33mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_stand...pe_thread_sizes


I've also got outer diameter 1/2 inch polycarbonate tubing for a sight glass. But a 1/2inch connector I bought which would screw into a 1/2inch TEE is VASTLY larger than 12.7mm (the actual size of 1/2inch)


What the hell is going on?! Even if 1/2inch BSP connectors measures the smallest internal diameter of the pipe, it's still way WAY larger than 1/2inch.

Can someone offer some sage plumbing advice? I'd like to order parts online since getting them from stores is such a hassle, but I don't want to buy a bunch of useless parts that don't fit.

Thanks in advance!
See http://pipeandhose.com/?q=faceted_search/results/taxonomy%3A16 - might help explain things. NPT and BSP are compatible in some diameters (eg. 1/2 inch), but not all.
 

treefiddy

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practicalfool said:
I never did find out what nut to fit on them....

fwiw, 1" BSP & the one that comes with the keg king element did not fit. My next stop was to look up a plumbing shop for whatever nut goes on a HWS, since these elements are meant to be for that... Got disinterested and sidetracked.
I think they just screw into the HWS, no nut needed (or already welded inside).

So you bought one of these elements and decided it was too much trouble? That sucks.

The holes are already cut in my kettle, and I have two of these elements to I'm damn well going to use them.



Maheel said:
always take the element with you....

i went to reece and got a brass nut one for my 1" bsp screw in from here

http://www.australianelementsupplies.com.au/products/detail/2.4KW-INCH-BSP-SCREW-IN-2381


[SIZE=11pt]i was lucky and spoke to Leanne (email then phone) and she gave me the "trade price of $26.60 +GST"[/SIZE]

i bought a 2400 and a 3600 both work well

[SIZE=11pt]shipping was a post bag = 12.50 i think [/SIZE]
I hadn't planned to go back today, but I finished work early so had the time (but no element on me).

Last time I was in Reece there was no stock, but I might call in again with the element tomorrow and see if she fits.
Thanks for the tip. Both your element and mine are for a HWS, surely they would be the same.
Also, half price. Not bad!
 

pk.sax

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Yea.. I kinda moved town because of it, selling off my brewing gear was coincidental.
 

Maheel

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also try tradelink 1st

their prices are often 1/2 of reece as they are nicer and give trade type rates to most people
 

treefiddy

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Maheel said:
also try tradelink 1st

their prices are often 1/2 of reece as they are nicer and give trade type rates to most people
Cheers mate. I didn't have a tradelink close by, but I got two brass locknuts from Bentons Plumbtec for about $3.50 (coincidence?).

These will do for now.

Thanks all for the help.
 

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