Brown ale Vs Irish Red ale

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Hi,

I've been looking up some recipes for making both a Brown ale and an Irish Red. These are all extract plus specialty grain recipes and I wanted to ask, as they look fairly similar, is in people's experience the brown ale the same specialty grains as red ale but in a larger quantity?

These are the recipes I am using found in various places online

View media item 10687View media item 10688View media item 10685View media item 10686
I'm not too worried about the bitterness of the red ale as I want to use a Muntons Irish Cream ale base. For the brown ale i've got some spare kohatu hops that I can use for bittering. Probably around 50 grams for 30 minutes in the boil.

The Brown ale I am trying to get something similar to a northern english brown style and the red a creamy irish red. Has anyone brewed these before and have any tips?

Thanks!
 
I have just done both, being as my Dad spends most of his time around here (he is retired and says he doesn't want to spend to much time with his feet up in front of a roaring wife) I made a mild which for me is a bit to weak, though it hasn't had time in the bottle as yet, my Da suggested making a brown ale to give a bit more body and alcohol content.
Nut Brown Ale
3.5 kg United Kingdom - Golden Promise 37 3 74.3%
0.455 kg United Kingdom - Brown 32 65 9.7%
0.455 kg United Kingdom - Crystal 30L 34 30 9.7%
0.1 kg United Kingdom - Chocolate 34 425 2.1%
0.2 kg Turbinado 44 10 4.2%
20 g Challenger Pellet 8.5 Boil 60 min 23.3
17 g East Kent Goldings Pellet 5 Boil 15 min 5.78
I cold steep the dark grains but I didn't cold steep the Brown malt which I thought was going to spoil it but it actually came out very good.
The Irish Red I did a traditional Irish Red not the American version
  • For 5.5 gallons (20.8 L)
  • MALTS
  • 8 lb. (3.63 kg) Maris Otter pale malt
  • 1 lb. (0.45 kg) flaked maize
  • 4 oz. (113 g) 500° L roast barley
  • HOPS
  • 1.25 oz. (35 g) East Kent Goldings, 5% a.a. @ 60 min (20 IBU)
  • YEAST
  • White Labs WLP039 Nottingham ale yeast (2L starter)
  • WATER
  • 1 g/gal. calcium chloride added to reverse osmosis (RO) or distilled water
SPECIFICATIONS
  • Original Gravity: 1.047 (11.8° P)
  • Final Gravity: 1.009 (2.3° P)
  • ABV: 5%
  • IBU: 20
  • SRM: 13
DIRECTIONS
Mash malts at 148° F (65° C) and allow to rest one hour. Apply heat or boiling water to increase temperature to 168° F (76° C) over 20 minutes. Hold at 168° F (76° C) for another 10 minutes to mash out. Sparge at 168° F (76° C). Boil 90 minutes. Chill to 60° F (16° C) and oxygenate. Pitch a strong starter of yeast. Ferment at 65° F (18° C) until final gravity is reached if using Irish ale yeast, or 60–61° F (16° C) if using Nottingham.

Extract Version
Substitute 6 lb. (2.72 kg) Maris Otter pale malt extract syrup for Maris Otter malt and 1 lb. (0.45 kg) dextrose for flaked maize. Dissolve extract and sugar completely in RO water and top off to desired boil volume. Proceed as above

Sorry I haven't got a extract version of the Nut Brown Ale but if you use Brewers Friend that may be able to convert it for you.
 
That's great, thanks!

What's the difference between a nut brown ale and the nothern brown? I think the Norther is more toffee/caramel flavour where as the Nut brown is more malty?

Your red ale recipe has less Crystal Malt, do you recommend lessening it and adding maybe something like cara red? I am trying to get a similar irish red taste as you.

No problem about the extract, I just replace it with Light liquid extract and get an approximate calculation using biermacht.

Thanks!

I have just done both, being as my Dad spends most of his time around here (he is retired and says he doesn't want to spend to much time with his feet up in front of a roaring wife) I made a mild which for me is a bit to weak, though it hasn't had time in the bottle as yet, my Da suggested making a brown ale to give a bit more body and alcohol content.
Nut Brown Ale
3.5 kg United Kingdom - Golden Promise 37 3 74.3%
0.455 kg United Kingdom - Brown 32 65 9.7%
0.455 kg United Kingdom - Crystal 30L 34 30 9.7%
0.1 kg United Kingdom - Chocolate 34 425 2.1%
0.2 kg Turbinado 44 10 4.2%
20 g Challenger Pellet 8.5 Boil 60 min 23.3
17 g East Kent Goldings Pellet 5 Boil 15 min 5.78
I cold steep the dark grains but I didn't cold steep the Brown malt which I thought was going to spoil it but it actually came out very good.
The Irish Red I did a traditional Irish Red not the American version
  • For 5.5 gallons (20.8 L)
  • MALTS
  • 8 lb. (3.63 kg) Maris Otter pale malt
  • 1 lb. (0.45 kg) flaked maize
  • 4 oz. (113 g) 500° L roast barley
  • HOPS
  • 1.25 oz. (35 g) East Kent Goldings, 5% a.a. @ 60 min (20 IBU)
  • YEAST
  • White Labs WLP039 Nottingham ale yeast (2L starter)
  • WATER
  • 1 g/gal. calcium chloride added to reverse osmosis (RO) or distilled water
SPECIFICATIONS
  • Original Gravity: 1.047 (11.8° P)
  • Final Gravity: 1.009 (2.3° P)
  • ABV: 5%
  • IBU: 20
  • SRM: 13
DIRECTIONS
Mash malts at 148° F (65° C) and allow to rest one hour. Apply heat or boiling water to increase temperature to 168° F (76° C) over 20 minutes. Hold at 168° F (76° C) for another 10 minutes to mash out. Sparge at 168° F (76° C). Boil 90 minutes. Chill to 60° F (16° C) and oxygenate. Pitch a strong starter of yeast. Ferment at 65° F (18° C) until final gravity is reached if using Irish ale yeast, or 60–61° F (16° C) if using Nottingham.

Extract Version
Substitute 6 lb. (2.72 kg) Maris Otter pale malt extract syrup for Maris Otter malt and 1 lb. (0.45 kg) dextrose for flaked maize. Dissolve extract and sugar completely in RO water and top off to desired boil volume. Proceed as above

Sorry I haven't got a extract version of the Nut Brown Ale but if you use Brewers Friend that may be able to convert it for you.
 
That's great, thanks!

What's the difference between a nut brown ale and the nothern brown? I think the Norther is more toffee/caramel flavour where as the Nut brown is more malty?

Your red ale recipe has less Crystal Malt, do you recommend lessening it and adding maybe something like cara red? I am trying to get a similar irish red taste as you.

No problem about the extract, I just replace it with Light liquid extract and get an approximate calculation using biermacht.

Thanks!
I think that the term Nut Brown is more of a descriptive term, gives a nice ring to it as well, as far as I know the sweeter brown ale is the southern brown ale, the American Irish Red would use the Carra red I think the try to get a more distinct red colour whereas the Irish, Irish red would be relying on the roasted barley for the colour this is mine straight out of the kettle.
002.JPG
 
Oooh, that looks like a nice drop.

I think I'll convert the base grain to extract and go with similar specialty grains as yours.

Cheers for the advice!

I think that the term Nut Brown is more of a descriptive term, gives a nice ring to it as well, as far as I know the sweeter brown ale is the southern brown ale, the American Irish Red would use the Carra red I think the try to get a more distinct red colour whereas the Irish, Irish red would be relying on the roasted barley for the colour this is mine straight out of the kettle.
View attachment 111674
 
If going for a creamy Brown ale use oats at 18% of the grist. I love golden naked oats, they have some sweetness so you can back off the Crystal. If you want you could just use porridge oats in the steeping grains, no need to mash.
 
If going for a creamy Brown ale use oats at 18% of the grist. I love golden naked oats, they have some sweetness so you can back off the Crystal. If you want you could just use porridge oats in the steeping grains, no need to mash.

Thanks! I wouldn't mind adding it to the red ale. I plan on using a kit of Muntons Irish cream ale but am not sure how "creamy" it would be. So I can just use regular oats from the supermarket? I could ask the local homebrew shop if they have any (they don't on their website) and if not buy some elsewhere.

Since I am doing extract, with my recipes above, would about 200g/250g be enough? Or am I looking at double that?
 
There is an old joke in brewing "Kilkenny, Traditional Irish Red Ale - invented by Smithwick in 1986"
Irish red is really a new take on very old traditional Brown Ale - mind you Brown Ale is considered the progenitor of most UK style Ales.
As a general guide I would say: -
Red Ale gets most of its colour/flavour from Crystal Malt
Brown Ale gets most of its colour/flavour from Roasted Malt (Amber/Brown/Biscuit...)
Other than that the two styles are fairly interchangeable.
Mark
 
There is an old joke in brewing "Kilkenny, Traditional Irish Red Ale - invented by Smithwick in 1986"
Irish red is really a new take on very old traditional Brown Ale - mind you Brown Ale is considered the progenitor of most UK style Ales.
As a general guide I would say: -
Red Ale gets most of its colour/flavour from Crystal Malt
Brown Ale gets most of its colour/flavour from Roasted Malt (Amber/Brown/Biscuit...)
Other than that the two styles are fairly interchangeable.
Mark
Great!

Today is mash day. Will use about 250g of oats and use the no chill method for pitching tomorrow!
 

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