Brew Club - Legalities & Responsibilities

[GMK]

Hello All,

Seeking some help & advice.
I can't seem to find a Legal definition for what constitutes a Club and the legal responsibilities associated with a club.

This has come about as the Barossa Brewers CLub may incorporate.
One of the main reasons for this is to establish a fund and to get Public Liability insurance in case we get sued.

At this stage - we call ourselves the Barossa Brewers Club but we are:
- Social only
- have no formal positions.
- no committe
- no constitution.
- no agm etc.
- no seperate bank accounts.
- do have social outings.
- do brew days etc.

As the founder and therefore Defacto President - if we have a gathering/function and something goes wrong - can I as the defacto president be Sued.

Any help or pointers much appreciated.

Thanks

GMK

 

[razz]

Have a look google at "incorporated associations"

 

[Paul H]

Note: I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on television.

Up here in the greater Brisbane area our club BABBS is an unincorporated entity that is affiliated with an incorporated entity the Qld Association of Amateur Wine & Beer Guilds (QAAWBG). The QAAWBG holds a public liability policy that covers all members of the QAAWBG (being a member of an affiliated club gives you via an subscription fee, membership to the QAAWBG) for indemnity purposes. We sought specifically to get coverage to protect those who take on committee positions as they are the ones who tend to get targeted when the lawyers get involved.

From memory it is a $10 million policy.

The cost of the policy is around $650 pa & the premium varies slightly whether you have 20 or 200 members.

In Qld the dept of Fair Trading governs Incorporated Associations etc.

 

[///]

Or be like the IBU's, no incorporation, no money. structure or expectation. Just fella's and fellarines who enjoy the company of thier brethren.

Incorporation does not mean you will not be sued as an entity or individually.

Scotty

 

[Stuster]

Or be like the IBU's, no incorporation, no money. structure or expectation. Just fella's and fellarines who enjoy the company of thier brethren.

Incorporation does not mean you will not be sued as an entity or individually.

Scotty

That's us ISBs as well. Buuuuuuut, is there still any liability? Common sense would say no, but that might be completely wrong in a court of law.

 

[///]

That's us ISBs as well. Buuuuuuut, is there still any liability? Common sense would say no, but that might be completely wrong in a court of law.

The IBU's are not a legal entity, so anything held under an 'IBU' Banner falls onto individuals. But, there are no records such as constitutions, member sign-up documents, ABN, Bank Account etc. The IBU's are under the law not an entity and no one has stood up to be solely responsible via any due diligence methods. A court of law would have to prove that the IBU's exist, and a website proclaiming a rabble of unruly sorts does not cut it, as there are no addresses relevant to serving legal documents on. To be sued documents need to be served physically first. Then, when the documents are served can the process begin. Theres no address to serve the documents on, an address for a 'member 'may exist, but there are no membership documents recording that person as a member. Membership to a forum on the IBU is not a membership as how can you physically serve documents onto the AHB Forum. Do you hold the summons up to a computer screen? One could argue that this is sufficient for a Court of Law, but then one could argue otherwise.

As is the case, we went thru the same with the NSW Brewers Guild. Net result was the same as incorporated with a large deal more of reporting.

Scotty

 

[Linz]

MALE falls into the same category as IBU and ISB's; prolly more unruly and more of a rabble and ALOT more disorganised B)

 

[Stuster]

We're pretty disorganised too, Linz.

Good to hear it, Scotty. I'll call you as my first witness. B)

 

[GMK]

Thanks for the replies so far.

So - if there are no positions, constitution etc then we are not a club in a legal sense.
Calling ouselves a "Club" does not make us a club and liable.

I Hope i have this right - off to google incorporated associations...

 

[bugwan]

If anybody threatened to sue over an incident on a brew day, I'd just put up the money and have them bumped off before the lawsuit is filed...

...maybe I've been watching too much Underbelly :lol:

 

[peas_and_corn]

A court of law would have to prove that the IBU's exist, and a website proclaiming a rabble of unruly sorts does not cut it, as there are no addresses relevant to serving legal documents on.

The first rule of IBU club is you do not talk about IBU club.

 

[GMK]

Just found this....I know it is from Tasmania....

http://www.consumer.tas.gov.au/business_af...why_incorporate

However, there are also problems in being an unincorporated association. A number of problem areas are discussed below.

In relation to liability, generally the members of the committee of an unincorporated association will be personally liable for anything for which, if the association were a company, the company would be liable. In particular if some person acting in the course of their duties does some negligent act, which results in damage to person or property, the members of the committee will normally be personally responsible - risks of this kind can be covered by insurance. If incorporated, an insurance policy can be taken out in the name of an association and this covers at least part of the legal liability. However, you should note that at times these insurance policies are difficult to obtain.

In relation to litigation, an unincorporated association cannot sue or be sued in the name of the association. Any action taken must be in the name of individuals on behalf of the members of the committee and, for reasons already given, many actions have not been successful. If incorporated, any action in law is taken out in the name of an association as a separate legal identity.

 

[Stuster]

members of the committee...in the course of their duties

:lol:

Committee? Members? Duties?

 

[GMK]

Finally found something from SA...

http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/

UNINCORPORATED ASSOCIATIONS
Unincorporated associations are not regarded as legal entities by law even though their members may regard them as independent organisations. They are really only a collection of people acting together. This is the most obvious difference between unincorporated and incorporated organisations.

Members of an unincorporated association are, subject to the powers of the association's constitution, capable of entering into contracts and doing things on behalf of other people in the association. They are also individually and personally responsible for any debts incurred in the name of the association. Where a contract is signed on behalf of an unincorporated association, the individual members are responsible and may be sued. Similarly, if someone is injured through an unincorporated association's negligence and there is no insurance, the association cannot be sued but individual members may be sued. For the importance of insurance for community organisations, whether unincorporated or incorporated, SEE .

Public liability insurance policies may cover damage caused by volunteer workers of an organisation. Whether the negligent actions of volunteer workers are covered or not depends on individual policies. Even if an organisation's public liability insurance does not include cover for the negligence of volunteer workers, the individual volunteers will not normally be liable because of the protection afforded by the Volunteers Protection Act, 2001. See Volunteer Protection

 

[homekegger1]

If anybody threatened to sue over an incident on a brew day, I'd just put up the money and have them bumped off before the lawsuit is filed...

...maybe I've been watching too much Underbelly :lol:

Hang on, hasn't it been made illegal to watch, look at or even talk about in VIC???

Come on surely there is no underground activity going on with regard to this great almost real B) TV show???

Cheers


HK

 

[Pat Casey]

Incorporated or not, the other thing to bear in mind is Responsible Service of Alcohol obligations. Even though the alcohol is not being sold, anyone serving alcohol still needs to have an RSA certificate. At what point you need an RSA certificat is a bit grey. Serving alcohol to friends or family at home you don't need one. But you would need one if you took some kegs to a private party on private premises and spent the evening pouring beers.

Even in the context of an informal/unincorporated brew club, people serving alcohol, for say a tasting night, would be required to have RSA certificates. So, a long day at work, one or two tastes too many, a nasty car accident and the person who had served the alcohol would be held to have a contributing responsibility. Without an RSA cerificate they would be in a very sticky spot, especially if the victim of the accident took legal action.

Yes, I have my RSA certificate.

Pat
Absolute Homebrew

 

[PostModern]

MALE falls into the same category as IBU and ISB's; prolly more unruly and more of a rabble and ALOT more disorganised B)

I seriously doubt it. We have a website (not yahoo) but no committee or anythiong formal. Just blokes that like beer. If anything happened, the individuals concerned would be held liable, so we each take responsibility for our own actions.

The first rule of IBU club is you do not talk about IBU club.

What IBU club?

:lol:

Committee? Members? Duties?

Indeed.

Even in the context of an informal/unincorporated brew club, people serving alcohol, for say a tasting night, would be required to have RSA certificates.

Should stewards at comps have RSA certificates for serving beers to judges??

 

[brettprevans]

GMK - Ive done a lot of work in this area (legal entity work and governance). If your really interested, gimme a PM and I'll send fix up a word doc for your reading pleasure over a few brews. There is a lot of differance with entity types and liabilities. simpliest way of putting it:
no entity (just group of people hangning round) - whoever owns the premisis that the people are on is liable. anyone can sue anyone.
differant entity types offer differant levels of liability protection. but a little responsibility comes with each type.
usually unincorporated entity is sufficient or an incorporated is also easy. all local footy clubs etc are either one as it offers protection and allows money to change hands. It all easy stuff. The only thinkg to be careful of when getting advise is that some State laws applies first, so you need to check your relevant state laws.

 

[Linz]

Should stewards at comps have RSA certificates for serving beers to judges??

Ahhwww shoot...

why didnt you just say that 'no-chill is 100% safe' or 'Extract brewing is better than AG' or 'retailers are taking over the world and stopping bulk buys'!! h34r: