Brew Always Tastes Like Homebrew

[Pennywise]

I agree that to make an extract brew excellent you do need spec grain, decent yeast (although I have no problem with the coopers kit yeast at all, but it must be fresh), good temp control and many other things.
@megs80, we're all hear to discuss brewing mate, never a need to just shut up :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

I've found that with kits and extracts, I could make very nice beers at the darker end of the range, in fact some brews such as Morgans Ironbark dark just as is, kit yeast and maybe a handful of fuggles is as twang free as you will get. Noice drop. Not to mention my crazy headbanger stout. :kooi: On the other hand the lighter and lighter I went, the more noticeable the extract taste became. However using very light extract and a selection of pale malts to do a partial mash got me beers that were well on the way to Melbourne Bitter etc. Which was what I was aiming for. Since I was spending a couple of hours doing a stovetop partial anyway, that's what got me into AG.

What I have found however is that in the middle of the range, attempting malt driven UK Bitters and Milds, I have had no luck with extract. It seems to turn out just like my old dad's extract and dried up fuggles 1950s brews. I'm off to Coles today and if they have some Coopers on Spec I might run up a couple of toucan stout headbangers as my brewery is tied up with comp beers ATM and I need a couple of quick quaffers. :beerbang:

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I've found that with kits and extracts, I could make very nice beers at the darker end of the range, in fact some brews such as Morgans Ironbark dark just as is, kit yeast and maybe a handful of fuggles is as twang free as you will get. Noice drop. Not to mention my crazy headbanger stout. :kooi: On the other hand the lighter and lighter I went, the more noticeable the extract taste became. However using very light extract and a selection of pale malts to do a partial mash got me beers that were well on the way to Melbourne Bitter etc. Which was what I was aiming for. Since I was spending a couple of hours doing a stovetop partial anyway, that's what got me into AG.

What I have found however is that in the middle of the range, attempting malt driven UK Bitters and Milds, I have had no luck with extract. It seems to turn out just like my old dad's extract and dried up fuggles 1950s brews. I'm off to Coles today and if they have some Coopers on Spec I might run up a couple of toucan stout headbangers as my brewery is tied up with comp beers ATM and I need a couple of quick quaffers. :beerbang:

+1 - exactly what I think.

My theory as to why the darker brews are more forgiving than light ones, and that english ales are awful from a kit? Darker variety malt. The bitterness roasted/chocolate/whatever dark malt provides a beer is unique and has the habit of hiding twang. It provides bitterness that is different to hops, so you don't end up with old hop odours dominating the bittering part of the palate.

With light beers - there is no roast to hide the twang. The hops, if they are old, exacerbate it somewhat. Even fresh hops leave a light extract brew tasting agricultural.

The English malt beers are all sweet, and low hop, so the sweetness which is the dominant characteristic of these styles, has nothing to hide behind (hop bitterness nor roasting bitterness), so again, twang.

I also hid twang in many of my darker beers behind cloves (numbs the palate a little too, as well as making the stout a 2 stubbie and I'm asleep job) and other spices (star anise, cardamom, cinnamon (sparingly)).

Below beer is an AG brew. No spices in this one, just a good grain bill. Oh and honey and cherry juice and Nelson Sauvin hops and a windsor yeast.

 

[Fourstar]

This is the funniest, least moderated thread i have read in a while. Kinda feel like i am in 4chan right about now. :lol:

+

=

 

[Pennywise]

4*, the kitten is supposed to be IN the airlock

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

This is the funniest, least moderated thread i have read in a while. Kinda feel like i am in 4chan right about now. :lol:

:lol:

If only we could cause the commercial brewers trouble like the 4chan crew did with Beiber! :lol: :lol:

 

[bum]

least moderated thread i have read in a while.

Yeah, it's not just helpful brewers who've all but disappeared from here.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Don't get it.

Usually beer = pussy for me. Not the other way around.

 

[Pete2501]

Don't get it.

Usually beer = pussy for me. Not the other way around.

To make beer properly you need to put moar kittens in the air lock.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

This is the funniest, least moderated thread i have read in a while. Kinda feel like i am in 4chan right about now. :lol:

+

=

To make beer properly you need to put moar kittens in the air lock.

Why kittens? *literal person here*.

Seriously, this debate rolling around AHB the last couple of weeks is crazy. We have the extract don't-tell-us-to-go-all-grain nazis vs the AG you-can't possibly-make-adequate-beer snobs.

It's getting old.

IMO - AG produces the best beer. But extract can produce good beer. And years' of experience doing extract have taught me that darker beers have more give in errors. After all the Guide to Allgrain brewing in a bag (not the nick_JD one - that's another flamewar in its own right) uses a basic dark beer to start, because of that same reason.

The funniest thing in this thread is actually bum's rant. But for what it's worth, he's right.

 

[501]

Ah ic
you mean pussy brings beer
lucky man
:drinks:

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Ah ic
you mean pussy brings beer
lucky man
:drinks:

Nope. Pussy doesn't bring beer. But if I bring beer to owner of pussy.....

 

[Fourstar]

The funniest thing in this thread is actually bum's rant. But for what it's worth, he's right.

Dang, it only took 40 posts for someone to comment on it. Maybe this forum is on the way down?! People can't even be bothered to bite back!

 

[muckey]

Why kittens? *literal person here*.

*snip*

not trying to hijack the thread but the kittens relates back to a quote from someone who used to be a member of this forum

rants will never be the same again h34r:

 

[bum]

not trying to hijack the thread but the kittens relates back to a quote from someone who used to be a member of this forum

rants will never be the same again h34r:

Yep, pretty big shoes to fill. He is very sorely missed.

And a quick reminder - kittens are for choking as an educational aid, not for stuffing into airlocks.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Dang, it only took 40 posts for someone to comment on it. Maybe this forum is on the way down?! People can't even be bothered to bite back!

regarding bum's rant - if someone gives bad advice, they get lambasted by AG "all non AG beer is garbage" snobs. If they give good advice (usually centred around good brewing practice and advice to go to AG), the "don't tell us to go AG, brewing isn't that complicated, how dare you say my kit beer isn't as good as your AG from a 3V system" start a friggin' crybaby trollbot flamewar. Happened to me last week and I didn't even explicitly say "you should go AG", just that my AG beers are an improvement in 6 batches over 10 years of extract.

Dunno - I know that I've given the best advice I know - and when it comes to extract, I know my stuff. Can't say the same for AG, but in my limited opinion, it is the best way to brew beer. Time consuming, yes. More complicated, yes, but a better result.

But at the same time, I'm not about to tell someone who is doing kit/extract "go away n00b, go AG with a 3V system and $2000 worth of kegerator, it's the only way you get half decent beer", because I know from personal experience that good beer can be made from extract and that lack of knowledge about great brewing practices doesn't automatically doom someone to brewing failure - even if it does increase likelihood of said failure. We all learn at our own speed. And I'm sure the ancients occasionally made good beer. Ugly people never died out.

 

[bum]

I'd like to distance myself from LRG's opinion on my opinion. He is misinterpreting my point to suit his own position. In fact, I can barely see how it even relates.

 

[muckey]

I certainly agree that my AG efforts are far better than my kit / extract efforts too.

In reality, most people start with a kit brew and some of us progress from there. Forme, it has nothing to do with which method produces the best beer. I think that brewing with kits and progressing from there is a perfect way to learn about cleaning, sanitation, fermentation and also to gain an understanding of what some adjuct bring to the beer - eg by dryhopping, steeping grains, trying different yeast etc and all of this can be done without even knowing what 3V system is.

sorry peoples / rant off. :lol:

I personally think that the best things that I found to reduce the home brew taste were steeped grains and learning how to remove the yeast from my beer.

 

[MarkBastard]

Talking extract (unhopped) Vs All Grain,

I think it comes down to the following.

1 - All grain you can choose from many different base malts and can mash these for different lengths of time at different temperatures etc.
2 - LME you have far less choice or control over this.
3 - With this in mind, if your recipe just happened to require base malt that would be very similar to Pale LME, then your extract + spec grain beer will probably be pretty bloody close to the AG one, albeit with a bit of a twang.

A good extract beer is like 90% as good as the AG equivalent.

Where as a kit beer that's isohopped is IMO about 10% of the way towards AG.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I'd like to distance myself from LRG's opinion on my opinion. He is misinterpreting my point to suit his own position. In fact, I can barely see how it even relates.

Then what is your position? Because I re-read your post before making mine - and AFAIK, I've interpreted it right.

What I see you saying is "don't blame us for bad advice, harden up. Will someone with good advice please share it." And my position on that is clear - I agree.

But there are flamewars all through the forum, and principally it revolves around either 1. Average advice or 2. Good advice that someone else unrelated doesn't want to hear and starts an OT flamewar.

But I may have lost your meaning in the expletive laiden rant.

Either way, this debate is healthy. And I always stand corrected on anything I write. I don't think of myself as any oracle or that my opinion is final, absolute or even correct. However, I do prefer that either way, healthy debate is not discouraged. After all, art is something peculiar to each person, and whilst brewing is definately a science, it is also an art.