Braumeister - Tips & Tricks

[Coalminer]

Can't comment on the 50L but with my 20L my usual volumes are 26L mash and 6-7L sparge (depending on amount of loss to grain)
usually gives me 30-31L boil and final vol of about 25L. Never under 80% BHE

 

[Crusty]

I was having a load of dramas with volumes & poor efficiency until Midnight Brew steered me on the right path.
To work out your total water needed, you have to previously work out your losses to trub/kettle & your boil off.
For me, that is 4L to trub & 4L to boil off. Then you need to work out your loss to grain absorption. Mine is pretty much 0.6L/Kg.
The water required for grain absorption is your grain amount x 0.6.
So, If I want 20L into my fermenter, this is what you do.
20 + 4 + 4 + 5.2kg grain x 0.6 = 3.12L = 31.12L total water required.
I mash in with 27L water so 31.12L - 27L = 4.12L sparge water.
Numbers have been spot on for me regardless of the sparge calculated by BeerSmith.

 

[mckenry]

Thanks Crusty,
Yeah, all my numbers are dialled in. I hit them bang on every time. Just at 62% BH eff. After collecting a few litres !! of 1.045, I have decided to go back to sparging.
These are the things I have to weigh up.
I want 50L into the fermenter.
1. Do I do my regular mash-in volume then sparge to preboil, which in your case would be 58L
2. Do I choose a 1.5L/kg for a 'good' sparge, then work out my volumes backwards
3. Do I mash-in with 55L regardless of grain bill then sparge with whatever it takes etc etc.
The numbers dont bother me. Just wondering if there is a magic number for a proper rinse, (max extraction) without doing the 1.010 runnings test.

 

[Crusty]

Thanks Crusty,
Yeah, all my numbers are dialled in. I hit them bang on every time. Just at 62% BH eff. After collecting a few litres !! of 1.045, I have decided to go back to sparging.
These are the things I have to weigh up.
I want 50L into the fermenter.
1. Do I do my regular mash-in volume then sparge to preboil, which in your case would be 58L
2. Do I choose a 1.5L/kg for a 'good' sparge, then work out my volumes backwards
3. Do I mash-in with 55L regardless of grain bill then sparge with whatever it takes etc etc.
The numbers dont bother me. Just wondering if there is a magic number for a proper rinse, (max extraction) without doing the 1.010 runnings test.

No: 3 for sure.
The only variable every brew will be your sparge volume which will be dependent on your grain bill.
Your mash in, trub loss & boil off will be the same every time.
I like a higher water to grain ratio & a smaller sparge volume. No real science, just personal preference with the BM.
My last 50L batch went like this.
50 + 4 + 4 + ( 10.17kg grain x 0.6 ) = 6.10 = 64.10L total water needed.
64.10L - mash in volume ( 55L ) = 9.1L sparge.
If I stick with the numbers predicted by BeerSmith, I end up with more volume & I miss my target gravity. No matter what I change in the equipment setup, it still happens. This seems to be a common problem with single vessel systems & I'm not too sure Brad knows how to fix his calculations. The software is great & I use it all the time but I use the above formula for my water requirements & my numbers & gravity are bang on.

 

[brianman]

No: 3 for sure.
The only variable every brew will be your sparge volume which will be dependent on your grain bill.
Your mash in, trub loss & boil off will be the same every time.
I like a higher water to grain ratio & a smaller sparge volume. No real science, just personal preference with the BM.
My last 50L batch went like this.
50 + 4 + 4 + ( 10.17kg grain x 0.6 ) = 6.10 = 64.10L total water needed.
64.10L - mash in volume ( 55L ) = 9.1L sparge

With ya on that Crusty, i currently mash in ~5kg with 24lts, sparge with 2x4.5lts, (5 mins in between)~30lts boil, ~24.5-25lts in fermenter. Next brew , this week, will mash in with 27lts & sparge with 6lts, should be a good comparison, generally attain 76-78% BH efficiency.

 

[Crusty]

With ya on that Crusty, i currently mash in ~5kg with 24lts, sparge with 2x4.5lts, (5 mins in between)~30lts boil, ~24.5-25lts in fermenter. Next brew , this week, will mash in with 27lts & sparge with 6lts, should be a good comparison, generally attain 76-78% BH efficiency.

Same here for efficiency, 76%.

 

[brianman]

Same here for efficiency, 76%.

If i can lift efficiency a tad would be good, output limited by 30lt fermenters, 25lts is enough, don't want to be cleaning out the ferment fridge every brew. Some times 25 is too much depending on yeast.

 

[brianman]

Same here for efficiency, 76%.

Funny, i used to mash in 23lts and dump sparge 10lts and get over 80%, but lifting hot water the height i needed to, something had to change, so now use a little brown pump with the 2 x 4.5, found a rest in between helps.

 

[mckenry]

OK cool. I use a spreadsheet called DBC Braumeister volumes...Think I got it from here. Its bang on with relation to grain v max or min mash in to avoid flooding the pipe. The main thing I want to do, is capture all the sugars possible from my sparge. From some other forums (fora?) it seems a bigger sparge, smaller mash seems to get the highest O.G.
I think I have some testing to do.
Will start with the 55L mash in.
Strange crusty, that you cant get the numbers right. Mine are always bang on.
I have 3.8L loss to trub and chiller plus 6L to evap and 2L to cooling for a 45L batch. evap = 75min boil for everything so I dont use hourly rate.
My grain absorption is set to 0.586, which is the default for BIAB and its bang on. But, this is before sparging, so that may or may not change.

 

[mckenry]

Update on achieving better efficiency.
Mashed 11.6kg in 50L. Sparged with 24L
From reading I decided to sparge with about 2L/kg. 50L mashin is a nice easy number and its marked and it allows 2L/kg sparge.
With 24L sparge the runnings went down to 1.030 - still pretty high compared to my old 3V.
My mash eff jumped from 68% without sparging to 80% with this sparge.
BH eff jumped from 62% to 75%
There is still quite a lot of sugar left in the grain at 1.030. The pump seemed to be ok, with a mash thickess of 4.3L/kg.
Maybe I'll go less mashin next time, more sparge? The calculator says I could go as low as 41L (3.5L/kg) mashin, which would therefore be a 33L sparge. Might get the eff up over 80%. Not that that is the be all and end all.
Thoughts?

 

[Black n Tan]

Sound like you are going in the right direction and that is a great improvement. My recollection is G&G do 2.5L/kg sparge for pale beers and 3L/kg for darker beers. I remember they mentioned to me that they have found leaving a delay before the final spare increases their efficiency a few points. So go for it and just monitor the sparge runnings gravity and ph to make sure you won't extract too many tannins.

 

[wobbly]

I'm sure it has been raised/discussed before but for the life of me I can't seem to find it!!!

What is the minimum amount (vol/kg) of grain that can be mashed in a 20lt Brau without experiencing the dreaded wort fountain issue

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[wide eyed and legless]

It's about 6kg wobbly but I made a top screen for mine to fit over the very top of the malt pipe a few years ago, Grain and Grape recently discovered putting a screen on the top increases the grain bill to 7.5 kg.

https://www.facebook.com/melbrau/posts/1768221540166578

 

[wobbly]

Thanks for that but the figure I am after is:-

What is the "Minimum" (not the maximum) amount (kg's) of grain you can mash with, without experiencing "Wort Fountains"

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Can't say I have ever read of a discussion on a minimum amount of grain for a 20 litre BM,is there a 10 litre malt pipe for the 20 litre BM?

 

[wobbly]

I seem to recall either on this site or the Braumeister forum site that it was something like 3.0 or 3.5kgs.

I am just after some clarification as I'm going to try and brew a Sierra Nevada Torpedo targeting 24lts into "my fermenter thingy!!" and my current plans are to do a double mash of something around 3.5 kgs of grain for each half but want to make sure before I do it that I wont end up with the dreaded "wort fountains" but I'm open to suggestion's on how to achieve the target 1065OG without trying to mash with somewhere around the 7+kgs of grain in a single mash

I know I could cheat and just add some DME to the boil to get to the target OG but that's not why I purchased the Brau!!!

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[razz]

It's about 6kg wobbly but I made a top screen for mine to fit over the very top of the malt pipe a few years ago, Grain and Grape recently discovered putting a screen on the top increases the grain bill to 7.5 kg.
View attachment 106847
https://www.facebook.com/melbrau/posts/1768221540166578

I take it WEAL that would be the same as using the original screen but placed upside down?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Razz I did do that initially but then cut a new screen that went completely over the top with an extra bottom seal sitting on the top rim.

Wobbly starting to recall Dicko doing some bigger beers, pretty sure they were on here and the Braumeister site, lookup 'reiterated mash' that should help you.

 

[razz]

Razz I did do that initially but then cut a new screen that went completely over the top with an extra bottom seal sitting on the top rim.

Wobbly starting to recall Dicko doing some bigger beers, pretty sure they were on here and the Braumeister site, lookup 'reiterated mash' that should help you.

Yes thanks, I have read about re-iterated mashing. I didn't know that a bottom seal would fit on the top, thanks.

 

[wobbly]

This is an interesting article on the subject of "reiterated mashing" https://byo.com/bock/item/1317-reiterated-mashing-multiple-mashes-for-massive-brews and makes interesting reading however my original question/inquiry remains unanswered on this site and the Braumeister site and that is can anyone advise me what the minimum amount of grain you can mash in a 20lt Brau without experiencing the "dreaded wort fountains"

Cheers

Wobbly