Braumeister NEXTGEN Build

[horse beer]

Use it to download: The Braumiser build.zip is in -> Braumiser_Volume_Calculations.xls

 

[aamcle]

I've looked through them but I'm still unsure, it seems that the default is that 1 kg of crushed grain (dry) will occupy a volume of 3 litre giving a bulk packing density of 0.33.
The same 1 kg of grain displaces 0.65 litres of water, OK I understand that the water fills the spaces between the grains so the volume of water displaced is a lot less than the dry volume of the grain.

So why is the total displacement 3.65 when the total displacement of water should be 0.65 x grain bill kg?

There seem to be two things going on-

How much grain can fit in the malt pipe = (malt pipe volume)/3 kg.
And
How much water is displaced by the grain = 0.65 x grain bill L. Up to to the maximum grain the pipe will hold.

So as you see my head has still not caput up with the spread sheet


Aamcle

 

[matho]

the 3l is the liquor to grist ratio ie 3l/kg will need a vessel size of 3.65 l per kg of grain, 3l for the water and 0.65l for the grain. You can't just pack the malt pie full of malt, you need some space for the water to flow thru so it comes down to the liquor to grist ratio or to put it another way water to grain. The average mash is about 3l/kg and I think the braumeister is about the same but I have pushed it down to 2.3l/Kg which seems to be about the limit for these type of systems. If you can get a malt pipe that will give you 3l/kg for most of your beers then it will work well.

cheers steve

 

[aamcle]

Sorted thanks Steve, I need a way bigger kit

Thanks. Aamcle

 

[horse beer]

Correct, Thx!

 

[angus_grant]

Hey everybody,

Well I'm back on the brau-clone highway after a fairly long break (and 5 or 6 BIABs)

I have ordered a chugger inline pump and was wandering back through the thread to see how people have mounted their pumps.

And I noticed that no-one has put in a ball valve to choke down flow out of pump if necessary.

Would one be required?

Thanks,
Angus.

 

[lael]

Hey everybody,

Well I'm back on the brau-clone highway after a fairly long break (and 5 or 6 BIABs)

I have ordered a chugger inline pump and was wandering back through the thread to see how people have mounted their pumps.

And I noticed that no-one has put in a ball valve to choke down flow out of pump if necessary.

Would one be required?

Thanks,
Angus.

I'm pretty sure most I've seen do exactly this - ekad's, PeteQ's, mine, I think big banko's did too. It is needed - otherwise you might get a situation where you crush too fine and you need to stop / reduce flow on your pump to prevent wort fountains / issues.

I did a belgian blonde about two weeks ago in mine - had about 5.7kg in the pot, and it was the first time using a new drill - double crushed 1.4 and then 1.2 as usual, but was running faster than I wanted - more flour, and it was an interesting mash. No major issues, but the pressure was enough that there basically wasn't any flow, and it actually bent the re-inforcing bars back up. My discs are a dish shape from drilling holes in them - I heard a pop - the dome had inverted, and bent the stainless reinforcing bars (bain marie dish holders / dividers) in the process. So... yes, IMO - very much needed.

The mash finished fine, got a crazy high efficiency out of the grain (something like a 1065 wort) and all was well... not sure now whether I should replace that reinforcing bar or not....

 

[angus_grant]

Yeh, I noticed mathos march pump had no ball valve and actually the Braumeister has no ball valves on the 50L model in the photos quite early in the thread.

I was going to add a ball valve and was then surprised when I noticed some people (and Spiedel) did not have one.

 

[Edak]

I'm pretty sure most I've seen do exactly this - ekad's, PeteQ's, mine, I think big banko's did too. It is needed - otherwise you might get a situation where you crush too fine and you need to stop / reduce flow on your pump to prevent wort fountains / issues.

I did a belgian blonde about two weeks ago in mine - had about 5.7kg in the pot, and it was the first time using a new drill - double crushed 1.4 and then 1.2 as usual, but was running faster than I wanted - more flour, and it was an interesting mash. No major issues, but the pressure was enough that there basically wasn't any flow, and it actually bent the re-inforcing bars back up. My discs are a dish shape from drilling holes in them - I heard a pop - the dome had inverted, and bent the stainless reinforcing bars (bain marie dish holders / dividers) in the process. So... yes, IMO - very much needed.

The mash finished fine, got a crazy high efficiency out of the grain (something like a 1065 wort) and all was well... not sure now whether I should replace that reinforcing bar or not....

Holy bejesus Lael! that's gotta be some intense pressure to bend those bars! I just run my grain through my mill once at 1.2mm, yeah it creates some flour but I haven't yet put 5.7kg in my MP! (I got to 5.6 last brew but I throttled the pump right from the beginning so no problems)

Are you game enough to go for more grain?

Oh and yeah I do use a ball valve too.

 

[angus_grant]

I did a belgian blonde about two weeks ago in mine - had about 5.7kg in the pot, and it was the first time using a new drill - double crushed 1.4 and then 1.2 as usual, but was running faster than I wanted - more flour, and it was an interesting mash. No major issues, but the pressure was enough that there basically wasn't any flow, and it actually bent the re-inforcing bars back up. My discs are a dish shape from drilling holes in them - I heard a pop - the dome had inverted, and bent the stainless reinforcing bars (bain marie dish holders / dividers) in the process. So... yes, IMO - very much needed.

:blink: :blink:
Ball valve it is!!!

 

[lael]

Holy bejesus Lael! that's gotta be some intense pressure to bend those bars! I just run my grain through my mill once at 1.2mm, yeah it creates some flour but I haven't yet put 5.7kg in my MP! (I got to 5.6 last brew but I throttled the pump right from the beginning so no problems)

Are you game enough to go for more grain?

Oh and yeah I do use a ball valve too.

Yeah, we will see how we go once I get the crush right.... I paused before putting it in and was like... that is going to cause issues... but went ahead anyway I did turn it down from the start, but also closed and opened the ball valve a few times to get the grain bed to re-settle. Funnily enough - I don't think I will need to put much more in there. efficiency is so good that I shouldn't need to go above 5.7kg grain. Which is about a 3.3L (.65L/kg offset+ 2.6L/kg grain fluidisation) amount anyway... I might try 6kg next run just for kicks as long as I get a good (more coarse) crush and see how it goes.... I think with less flour it should be fine. 90 min mash seems to render a good conversion / efficiency for me either way.

oh - that is with the kaixin pump too... best value pump ever. plenty of pressure and seems to handle heat just fine.

 

[Edak]

Hey Lael, the 3.3l you quote is interesting. Aren't you using a bigw pot? The volume that counts is what is between the plates, which should be less than 19L. Mine is closer to 16.5L.
Just saying...

 

[lael]

yes, yes it is.... an interesting point. Looking at my spreadsheet - it looks like my calculations end up at about 15L for the malt pipe grain bed volume. Which is pushing the limits of the system. 5.7kg = 2.64L fluidisation incl. displacement. No wonder it was struggling. Wonder what 6Kg would do... probably destroy efficiency at the least. Honestly - it required so much nursing last time around that I wouldn't want to go much further. It just ruins your ability to walk away and let it do it's thing. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Edak]

Any time buddy, you know that I am happy to help and point out (sometimes useless) facts.

 

[horse beer]

Right.

I was looking at home can be purchased in various sizes of stainless pots but 40 or too liters is big enough price.

I try a device, which is the of 20 liters of brewing can produce.
(The Braumiser build/Braumiser_Volume_Calculations.xls sheet2 page datas correct?)

I need a 20 liters system parts list?

Thank you in advance for your help and patience.
/ sorry for the poor english /

 

[matho]

Hey everybody,

Well I'm back on the brau-clone highway after a fairly long break (and 5 or 6 BIABs)

I have ordered a chugger inline pump and was wandering back through the thread to see how people have mounted their pumps.

And I noticed that no-one has put in a ball valve to choke down flow out of pump if necessary.

Would one be required?

Thanks,
Angus.

Hey Angus,

All my tubing underneath is 3/8" so it naturally adds resistance, I was planning on adding a reduced bore insert if I need it but I didn't. The only problem with a valve is you will have to clean it every now and then. I added a feature to the brauduino that the pump runs in the boil stage up to 95 deg so that the wort in the pipes get sanitised. I still run the original braumiser controller and that is one thing I want to change

cheers steve

 

[aamcle]

Hi All.

I've picked up an odd double walled stainless pot
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/album/1031-aamcle/

And I'm looking for advice as to it's potential for conversion to a Nextgen.

The dimensions are

Outer pot - 45 cm high by 33cm dia volume 38.5 litres
Inner pot - 39 cm tall by 28 cm dia volume 24 litres.

So it looks like it might be a good candidate for a small build.

But the difference in diameters is only 5cm or a gap of just 2.5 cm around the inner pot.

The question is would it be possible to fit the heating elements into the gap around the inner pot.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Regards. Aamcle

 

[djar007]

Do you mean so that you can circulate liquid through the void ? And pass that liquid over the element. Or are you trying for a concealed type element?

 

[aamcle]

My thought was to separate the two vessels and have the overflow from the malt pipe run down between the malt pipe and the outer vessel then over the heating elements before being drawn into the pump and from there returned to the malt pipe.

A concealed element under malt pipe would solve the space issue, do you know if any one has used one and did it work well?

Would pump need to run as soon as the element was energised and run on for a period after after it was powered off??

ATB. Aamcle

 

[Edak]

You will definitely need the element under the malt pipe due to space, but I have my system programmed just to disable the element when pump is off (except for when boiling). Never thought of turning off element before pump but it's a valid concern I guess.