Bottle Priming Calculator

[SergeMarx]

Further to an earlier thread talking about bottle sizes and priming (and my perhaps unreasonable distaste for bulk priming) I slapped up a spreadsheet to work out how much sugar (POS) is required (in grams) for different bottle sizes. I'll need to pick-up some fine scales to use it - pretty cheap from ebay I see.

Anyway, while I wait for the scales to trek here from Hong Kong I figured I might as well share in case anyone else could get some use out of it. Also, if it's wildly wrong, I'm sure someone will tell me.

View attachment Optimal Prime.xlsx

 

[Yob]

Why the irrational distaste of bulk priming? You would prefer to faff about weighing 30 bottle doses rather than do the whole thing in one hit?

Bulk priming was the best thingo ever did for bottling day... Well.. Except switch to Kegs

 

[Truman42]

[SIZE=11pt]A note on bottling temps.[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] You'll see that when the temperature rises the amount of sugar required to achieve desired carbonation increases. This is because cooler liquids have a greater amount of pre-existing CO2 saturation. The warmer they become, the more they outgas the CO2. You'll note that if you chill the beer to 2°C then bottle without any priming sugar, it will already have enough CO2 to carbonate to some styles. Not that I've tried it. Anyway, knowing the temp at bottling is critical if you're being fernickity about getting the carbonation spot on.[/SIZE]

I always thought that with bottle priming we were concerned about the highest temperature reached during fermentation, not the temperature at bottling??? If my maximum ferment temp reached was 22C, this is the temp that the most amount of Co2 would be released from the beer. When I chill to 2C this CO2 doesnt get re-absorbed into the beer. (Happy to be corrected if Im wrong)

I have to agre with Yob, bulk priming was the best thing I did othe than switching to kegs also. Having to weigh out sugar for each botle would be a PITA. I suppose if your just bottling one size bottle its not so bad, but I often bottle a mix of diferent sized botles.

 

[SergeMarx]

@Truman - I think I should remove or edit that note - both are factors, but essentially temperature determines the readiness of the beer to absorb CO2 (as I understand it) - which I'm guessing is why when you have a jug of water in the fridge, then bring it out to the warm, you get little bubbles on the vessel wall.

@Yob and Truman: I just can't be assed, after already moving the beer once to a secondary, to then clean and sanitize yet another vessel, cook up the priming liquid, wait for it to cool, mix it with the beer and hope I've a. measured the liquid volume correctly (my fermenters don't all have awesome markings) and b. distributed the primer thoroughly enough.

Should make clear I don't intend weighing each time, but weighing once for the amount I need than making a measuring spoon of some kind - probably a thin plastic tube, cut to the exact height the measured sugar volume, then glue a handle on it. I would say once that's done, priming will be bloody quick.

 

[SergeMarx]

Yep, I misunderstood.

"Green beer, i.e. beer that has finished fermenting and is ready for bottling, is saturated with carbon dioxide because it has had CO2 bubbling through it continuously during fermentation. ....... the CO2 level depends on the temperature (at which fermentation was completed) and explains why a sample taken from a secondary fermenter at 2 degC (36 degF) tastes much brighter than a sample from an ale fermenting at 20 degC (68 degF)."

 

[carniebrew]

I think it's an irrational fear of bulk priming that stops most from trying it. They read stuff about oxidation when racking, and introducing new sources of infection, and it scares them off. I'm just bog lazy, so the thought of priming each bottle (and like Truman i have a huge range of bottle sizes) turned me straight to bulk priming once I realised how unreliable and exxy the carb drops were.

I use this: http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirleslie/AlcoholChart/PrimingCalculator.html, but basically 150gm of dextrose for 20 litres of beer fermented at 19C gives you 2.7 vols. I just boil up a cup of water with the 150gm of dex stirred into it. Let it boil for maybe a minute, then pop the pot (lid on) in some cold water in the sink to cool it, then pour it into my 'bottling bucket' (just a fermenter with a tap) and rack my beer on top of it.

To rack I attach my bottling wand to the FV, some tube to that, and run the tube so that the out end sits under the inside of the tap in the bottling bucket. That way the beer runs sideways slowly into the bucket, mixing the priming solution through as it goes. No need for any stirring from me, and I've never had an oxidised or infected beer. The bucket is star-san'd, with the wand and hose inside, just before I do all this of course.

 

[carniebrew]

Should make clear I don't intend weighing each time, but weighing once for the amount I need than making a measuring spoon of some kind - probably a thin plastic tube, cut to the exact height the measured sugar volume, then glue a handle on it. I would say once that's done, priming will be bloody quick.

The problem with this though is it'll only work for styles of beer that need the same level of carbonation, and all your bottles need to be the same volume. What if you brew something that needs less/more carbonation, say a english bitter/porter/stout, or a weizen? Doing less is not too bad, just fill your tube 3/4 or 4/5ths roughly....but if you want more carbonation it'll be a right pain.

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

I always thought that with bottle priming we were concerned about the highest temperature reached during fermentation, not the temperature at bottling??? If my maximum ferment temp reached was 22C, this is the temp that the most amount of Co2 would be released from the beer. When I chill to 2C this CO2 doesnt get re-absorbed into the beer. (Happy to be corrected if Im wrong)

As I understood it, it should be the maximum temperature after fermentation is complete. If the temperature is lowered during fermentation, the amount of CO2 that is soluble increases and will be taken up as the yeast produce the CO2. After fermentation stops no more CO2 is being produced and the only way CO2 can be absorbed is through contact with the headspace.

I could be wrong, but this makes sense to me.

RB

 

[SergeMarx]

The problem with this though is it'll only work for styles of beer that need the same level of carbonation, and all your bottles need to be the same volume. What if you brew something that needs less/more carbonation, say a english bitter/porter/stout, or a weizen? Doing less is not too bad, just fill your tube 3/4 or 4/5ths roughly....but if you want more carbonation it'll be a right pain.

As per the spreadsheet showing the different sugar amounts required, I'll make up a few spoons based on the bottles I use. I'll probably make a few sets for different carbonation levels. Since I use probably 3 maybe 4 bottle sizes, it wont be that many to make up.

 

[Truman42]

@Yob and Truman: I just can't be assed, after already moving the beer once to a secondary, to then clean and sanitize yet another vessel, cook up the priming liquid, wait for it to cool, mix it with the beer and hope I've a. measured the liquid volume correctly (my fermenters don't all have awesome markings) and b. distributed the primer thoroughly enough.

Why do you rack to secondary at all during fermentation? I keep mine in primary until FG is reached then cold chill for a few days and fill a keg with 19 litres. The remaining 6 litres minus 1 litre of trub is racked to a fermenter with my priming solution in it and I bottle from that. I have no trub mixed into suspension as its all left in my original fermenter so I can tip this one over on an angle to bottle just about every last drop.

I know there are many posts on here for and against racking to a secondary, but Im with what seems to be the majority vote that its not necassary. And my beers havent suffered from it.

 

[SergeMarx]

Why do you rack to secondary at all during fermentation? I keep mine in primary until FG is reached then cold chill for a few days and fill a keg with 19 litres. The remaining 6 litres minus 1 litre of trub is racked to a fermenter with my priming solution in it and I bottle from that. I have no trub mixed into suspension as its all left in my original fermenter so I can tip this one over on an angle to bottle just about very last drop.

I know there are many posts on here for and against racking to a secondary, but Im with what seems to be the majority vote that its no necassary. And my beers havent suffered from it.

I generally don't for most beers. But if I'm dry hopping, i will. I recently brewed up a Christmas Ale which had cinnamon sticks and vanilla pods in the secondary for about a fortnight (amazingly good btw) - if I'd thrown them into the primary they'd sink into the yeast cake and do nothing. but for most beers, I just leave it in primary for a couple of weeks in a cooler spot after it's fermented out.

 

[Yob]

Sounds risky to me mate, you'll be half pissed one day and grab the wrong spoon and have bottle bombs.. Not poo pooing at all, if this is what us want, go for it, to me it sounds like more faffing about than bulk priming though..

YMMV

 

[SergeMarx]

Sounds risky to me mate, you'll be half pissed one day and grab the wrong spoon and have bottle bombs.. Not poo pooing at all, if this is what us want, go for it, to me it sounds like more faffing about than bulk priming though..

YMMV

That won't be a problem - I never start bottling until safely fully pissed

 

[Econwatson]

I'm afraid I've put myself off bulk priming for the present because of my own stupidity.

The other day I opened a 700ml bottle of stout, only the bottle wasn't quite full. Even after prying the lid a little, a huge amount of CO2 started venting out of the bottle. Later on after I opened it, it started gushing out the top. I was worried I had an infection but I tasted the beer and it was fine. I then remembered the bottle had only been maybe 3/4 so I figured it must have been some of the last stuff in the fermenter. This led me to deduce that lots of my sugar had sank to the bottom and made these last few bottles into potential hand grenades.

I think I need to do some more reading on the subject!

 

[GrumpyPaul]

I used to have a priming kit - unitl I lost the measuring spoon.

Heres what I do when I do bottle

Based on the spreadsheet figure how much sugar per litre (for desired vol) and multiply by the batch size

eg.
2.00 vol CO2 = 4.48g per 1000ml
4.48g x 23 litre batch = 103g of sugar

Get yourself a syringe (5 mil is a good size) as your measure.

Multiply the syringe size by the number of bottles to get how much water to dissolve the sugar in

eg
for 500 ml bottles
5ml x 46 = 230ml

Dissolve your 103g of suggar in 230ml of water.

then simply squirt a syringe full of the sugary liquid into each bottle.

Option 2 is get some kegs.

 

[431neb]

I think it's an irrational fear of bulk priming that stops most from trying it. They read stuff about oxidation when racking, and introducing new sources of infection, and it scares them off. I'm just bog lazy, so the thought of priming each bottle (and like Truman i have a huge range of bottle sizes) turned me straight to bulk priming once I realised how unreliable and exxy the carb drops were.

I use this: http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirleslie/AlcoholChart/PrimingCalculator.html, but basically 150gm of dextrose for 20 litres of beer fermented at 19C gives you 2.7 vols. I just boil up a cup of water with the 150gm of dex stirred into it. Let it boil for maybe a minute, then pop the pot (lid on) in some cold water in the sink to cool it, then pour it into my 'bottling bucket' (just a fermenter with a tap) and rack my beer on top of it.

To rack I attach my bottling wand to the FV, some tube to that, and run the tube so that the out end sits under the inside of the tap in the bottling bucket. That way the beer runs sideways slowly into the bucket, mixing the priming solution through as it goes. No need for any stirring from me, and I've never had an oxidised or infected beer. The bucket is star-san'd, with the wand and hose inside, just before I do all this of course.

Very similar method from me but I don't cool the sugar solution. Once it has boiled I tip it straight into a clean fermenter(the sugar solution) or jerry and rack beer via hose plugged onto the tap. The swirling mixes it for me.

 

[SergeMarx]

There's a chap in Daylesford, VIC, who brews a lot of English style numbers and sells them around the local farmers markets. He has some pretty great brews, but the interesting thing to me was he doesn't prime at all, but calculates the finishing CO2 based on gravity drop. I think he said he lets it 3/4 ferment then bottles without priming sugar. Personally I reckon that is crazy talk, but if you could nail down the variables (and guarantee the final gravity)...

 

[SergeMarx]

Very similar method from me but I don't cool the sugar solution. Once it has boiled I tip it straight into a clean fermenter(the sugar solution) or jerry and rack beer via hose plugged onto the tap. The swirling mixes it for me.

Exactly as I used to do it, but I still managed to get some nearly flat and some gushing bottles. I since moved to using a long plastic spoon to give it a good stir.

 

[jaypes]

There's a chap in Daylesford, VIC, who brews a lot of English style numbers and sells them around the local farmers markets. He has some pretty great brews, but the interesting thing to me was he doesn't prime at all, but calculates the finishing CO2 based on gravity drop. I think he said he lets it 3/4 ferment then bottles without priming sugar. Personally I reckon that is crazy talk, but if you could nail down the variables (and guarantee the final gravity)...

I can only imagine how many bottles he went through getting to the stage where he has this process perfected

 

[SergeMarx]

I like the syringe method mentioned above - and i was just thinking about adding some hops to a brew awaiting bottling in the shed when I thought - why not hop the priming sugar. Use the french press method to make hop tea, add your priming sugar, and bulk prime or syringe as needed. Hell, all the extra flavour you could pop it at bottling. Make up a few different priming solutions and have a few different versions of the one brew. I like that idea a lot.

Think I'll add the syringe bulk prime calculations on the spreadsheet.

 

[MartinOC]

There's more than one way to divest the moggie of it's coat. Whatever floats your boat is the way that's right for YOU.

I haven't bottled for years, but if I was to do it again, bulk-priming would be the way to go for me (irrespective of the fluffing-about variables of temperature, uneven mixing & pre-dissolved CO2).

 

[SergeMarx]

If anyone is interested, here's the updated version with bulk prime calculator (including syringe option)

View attachment Optimal Prime v2 - Bulk Prime with Syringe.xlsx

 

[fletcher]

There's a chap in Daylesford, VIC, who brews a lot of English style numbers and sells them around the local farmers markets. He has some pretty great brews, but the interesting thing to me was he doesn't prime at all, but calculates the finishing CO2 based on gravity drop. I think he said he lets it 3/4 ferment then bottles without priming sugar. Personally I reckon that is crazy talk, but if you could nail down the variables (and guarantee the final gravity)...

i've done that for a cider. 7 gravity points in a 750mL bottle for me was perfect carbonation. way too variable and risky for me for all brews though. but yeah, if you knew for certain, it'd be tops

 

[carniebrew]

I'm afraid I've put myself off bulk priming for the present because of my own stupidity.

The other day I opened a 700ml bottle of stout, only the bottle wasn't quite full. Even after prying the lid a little, a huge amount of CO2 started venting out of the bottle. Later on after I opened it, it started gushing out the top. I was worried I had an infection but I tasted the beer and it was fine. I then remembered the bottle had only been maybe 3/4 so I figured it must have been some of the last stuff in the fermenter. This led me to deduce that lots of my sugar had sank to the bottom and made these last few bottles into potential hand grenades.

I think I need to do some more reading on the subject!

I think it was Manticle who first put me onto the idea of putting a dot (.) on the lid of the last few stubbies I fill after bulk priming, because these do seem to get a little extra of the sugar solution in them. It does give you the opportunity to try your beer early though, as I find those last few stubbies carbonate more quickly, so I usually crack one with a dot on it 5-6 days after bottling. If it's fully carbed, I fridge the rest of the ones with dots.

That being said, I've had bottles with dots sit in my cupboard conditioning for many weeks, along with the non dot bottles, and they haven't exploded, so I don't think they're massively over-primed. It might be the something like priming at 3.2 vols instead of my usual 2.6 on a pale ale.

 

[yum beer]

I rack very similar to carniebrew for bulk priming, the swirling motion created mixes the sugar through pretty well but just to be sure i put a sanitised stirring spoon in as well and after about 8-10 botles I give it a gentle swirl to ensure any sugar that is settling gets back into suspension.
I get fairly consistent results across the whole batch.

 

[carniebrew]

The settling bit is interesting, my last brew I bulk primed as normal, but then the missus reminded me we had an appointment at my kid's school, so I had to leave it for two hours before bottling. I didn't stir it when I got back, just went ahead and bottled.

I opened the first bottle (one of the last bottled) after only 5 days conditioning, and it frothed up big time, so I quickly put the other two dotted bottles in the fridge. What will be interesting is if the rest carb up as expected now. I won't know for sure for another week or so, as this beer's only 11 days old. I cracked one last night and it was carbed, but maybe only 3/4. They might just take a little longer, which is ok given this is a big-hopped pale ale that'll benefit from some age anyway. Mind you that first one was a cracker, nothing like the 5 day old smell of dry hopped Citra & Galaxy to bring a smile to your face....tropical fruit city. Would have been a fun brew to keg & force carb.

 

[emnpaul]

I'm just not sure why people think it's necessary to cool their bulk priming solution before adding it to their brew. I just can't see how raising the temperature of my brew by adding 1 cup of near boiling sugar solution to 20 litres of beer at bottling time (having already cold crashed it to remove yeast) is going to do anything harmful.

 

[carniebrew]

You're right I'm sure, and I can't even recall why I bother cooling it, just became habit I think? I agree there's no need to do it, and I promise I'll stop...sorry!

But I don't cold crash, just for the record. And lately I've been doing a lot of 10-12 litre brews while working on style experiments. But still...even 10 litres of ~19C beer onto maybe 200ml of ~70C sugar solution...beer wins.

 

[emnpaul]

^ I wasn't trying to bag you out Carnie.

Although I read about cooling your priming charge in an earlier post of yours I didn't mean you specifically. I've read it elsewhere too. You just jogged my memory.

 

[carniebrew]

Nah mate, never thought you were, just taking the piss.