Bottle Conditioning Measurement.

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Well I decided I wanted to know more about just how long it takes to bottle condition beer, so I did a 'speriment.

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Day 1

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Day 2

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Day 3

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Day 4

The answer is 3 days in the right conditions.

Further info to follow

 

[Black n Tan]

I want to know what pressure they explode at :blink:

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Theoretically* an unscratched glass bottle 60mm in diameter with a 1mm wall thickness will survive up to 1.1 MPa, I don't want to test it that far.

 

[superstock]

How much sugar was used per bottle?

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Instrumented bottles: Bottles are “Mangrove Jack” 500ml swingtops, with the polythene tops drilled and tapped vertically to accept an M5 gas fitting thread and a 2.5mm hole drilled obliquely through to the bottom surface of the swingtop. Each cap was fitted with an M5 to 6mm push-on SMC pneumatic fitting which in turn connected to an SMC 0 – 4 Bar miniature gauge, stated accuracy is 2% FS. Connecting 6mm tube is filled with dacron breather fabric and sterilised by autoclave. Bottles are filled with dummy tube in place which is then replaced with a pre-sterilised tube connector and the gauge.

Beer: All malt ale, OG 13.9 oP, FG 3.5 oP, ABV 5.7%, fermented with Danstar Nottingham @ 18 oC, 2 days rest at 18 oC once FG achieved, settled 2 days at ~10 oC (no finings, no dry hop), racked off ferment lees to priming vessel then warmed to 18 oC.

Priming: sterilised glucose syrup equivalent to 6.2 g/l glucose (in beer volume) expected final CO2 level 4.6 g/l. At 18 oC 4.6 g/l is equivalent to 263 kPa absolute = 162 kPa gauge.

Yeast: S.cerevisiae “Prise de Mousse” (Lalvin EC1118) at 2 x 10^ 6 cells per ml (beer volume), rehydrated in 10 volumes of water at 39 oC for 20 minutes with no stirring, remixed before addition to priming vessel. Water was standard Melbourne tap water prepared by boiling for 5 mins then cooling to 39 oC in water bath.

Priming and yeast added to beer in priming vessel then mixed / aerated by shaking vigorously. Decanted to 500ml swing top bottles with approx 20 ml headspace per bottle, caps sealed then bottles placed in fermentation oven at 18 oC.

Pressures observed daily until calculated final pressure (1.6 Bar) achieved on gauges. One section of bottles then moved to 10 oC room, remaining sections held at 18 oC.

Extension:

After three further days at 18 oC ( = 7 days total ) second section of bottles to be moved to 10 oC room. After seven further days ( = 14 days total ) third section of bottles to be moved to 10 oC room. After 7 further days ( = 21 days total) fourth section of bottles to be moved to 10 oC room.

Intention is to do blind triangle tastings to see whether there is a significant difference ascribable to total time at conditioning temperature.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

How much sugar was used per bottle?

See above, note that glucose addition is stated as glucose rather than glucose monohydrate.

 

[JPS]

i dont know what all that means but OMG it sounds complicated.

 

[peteru]

Doesn't sound all that complicated. It is very clear that this is a part of a scientific process where good attention is being paid to variables that are expected to affect the outcome of the experiment. It's also evident that this is being done by a person with real scientific background, where particular attention is being paid to experiment reproducibility.

Loving it! Keep the science coming.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Got it in one: since the conclusion runs counter to the usual recommendation of 2 -3 weeks to achieve bottle conditioning, I thought it would be worthwhile to make how I got there as clear as possible.

Open offer: anyone who wants to try this at home is welcome to borrow the instrumented bottles.

 

[peteru]

I think you probably got rapid carbonation due to introducing fresh yeast and oxygen. Three days is pretty impressive, but in line with a good healthy primary fermentation.

I've had a case where the conditions were very unfavourable and it took (from memory) around 12+ weeks to carbonate bottles properly. That was with a 11.5% alcohol barley wine and no fresh bottling yeast.

I suspect that the 2-3 weeks rule of thumb is a conservative "to be sure, to be sure" figure.

I would be interested in finding out whether the length of time affect the perceived carbonation quality. I've heard people say that longer bottle conditioning will result in finer bubbles. I can't see the mechanism for that and have never noticed anything like that. I'd love to see some science to put that one to bed - one way or another.

 

[JPS]

Science is great, so is language! So WTF happened? whats the point? What happened? Is it a new phenomenon(help me with speeling peteru) Hmmm we all drill holes in our crown seals? I did try it and the vice crushed the crownseal :-((
Just moved on to kegging.

 

[peteru]

It means that it's possible to go from bottling to drinking fully carbonated beer in as little as 3-4 days, if you do it right.

 

[JPS]

if you want to risk adding 39deg yeast its a sure method, just cant see the why? factor.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

I think you probably got rapid carbonation due to introducing fresh yeast and oxygen.

I would be interested in finding out whether the length of time affect the perceived carbonation quality.

I very consciously made this a best case scenario modelled on how tirage is done in wine* I would have preferred to use DV10 yeast but I don't have any on hand here.

The intention of the extension outlined above is to see whether time at carbonation temperature affects carbonation texture. It's a given that bottle conditioning is different from the Charmat or soda methods and that it takes time for that difference to become manifest but I'd like to know how temperature affects this.

* Tirage is routinely done at 12% ABV, pH <3, Temp around 12 degrees and in a medium where the yeast has already eaten all the available nitrogen. Beer is a doddle compared to that.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

if you want to risk adding 39deg yeast its a sure method, just cant see the why? factor.

39 oC is the recommended temperature for rehydration of most dried yeasts. Some brewing yeasts and other specialty yeasts are lower but I deal mostly with wine yeasts.

Since I supervise the rehydration of hundreds of kilos of dried yeast in the average year I'm confident that I have it down pat now.

 

[Zorco]

Got it in one: since the conclusion runs counter to the usual recommendation of 2 -3 weeks to achieve bottle conditioning, I thought it would be worthwhile to make how I got there as clear as possible.

Open offer: anyone who wants to try this at home is welcome to borrow the instrumented bottles.

Uhum....HEY INTERNET....

I freakin' love this guy!......

 

[JPS]

39 oC is the recommended temperature for rehydration of most dried yeasts. Some brewing yeasts and other specialty yeasts are lower but I deal mostly with wine yeasts.

At that temperature, was funkiness from the yeast in mention present during tasting? The average homebrewer would have glass scattered from here to Turkey employing this method. Should not be encouraged

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Should not be encouraged

You'd better get on to the yeast manufacturers right away and set them right: Lallemand EC1118 instructions for use (pdf)

 

[MHB]

I'm thinking not many home brewers will be using the good old EC1118 (Champagne) yeast. Impressive yeast, probably the fastest and highest attenuator commonly available - I would approach it with caution.
I have used it as a secondary yeast to finish off very high alcohol Belgian styles, not sure I would again, I think it cleans up too much of the flavour.
Make dam sure you know it wont go further than you expect, some times a lot further.
Mark

 

[Moad]

The pressure in the headspace doesn't mean its absorbed into the beer though right?