Bitterness Ratio Ibu/sg In Beersmith

[Pumpy]

I had not really noticed the little box that measures this Bitterness ratio IBU/SG in Beersmith and I started flicking through my recipes and nticed that my more favourite beers tend to range from 0.2-0.6

I suppose the lower means less bitter however I have always thought I was a 'bitterman '

I was just tasting Rosco's First Gold bitter a lowish alchohol bitter out of the fermenter.

It is 0.9 one of the highest IBU/SG ratios i have made .

This looks an interesting tool i have not really utilised .

Do you normally use this ratio ?

Pumpy

 

[Stuster]

Yep. I use it. You've probably only noticed it as it's a new feature in the recent-ish Beersmith upgrade. I've always kept an eye on that ratio after reading about it in Designing Great Beer. It's not perfect, because it doesn't take account of things like how much crystal is in the grain bill and the attenuation of the yeast you're using, but it's certainly handy to know.

Bitters are not always that high on the BU:GU ratio, but 0.6 is on the low side for a bitter, but certainly a reasonable ratio. 0.2 though!

And how did you find Ross' First Gold bitter at 0.9. :lol:

 

[Keith the Beer Guy]

Do you normally use this ratio ?

I love the BU:GU ratio.

I think it's a great concept, I find it particularly useful when preparing a new recipe.

Like Stuster I came across it when reading Daniels "Designing Great Beers." A reference that I thoroughly recommend for anyone who enjoys devising their own recipes.

Happy Brewing,

Keith

 

[beers]

I'm a fan of it. I refer to it for formulating my recipes, & converting others recipes too.

This is an interesting article on BU:GU ratios & taking it a little further:

http://beercolor.netfirms.com/balance.html

 

[Ross]

Persnally not a fan at all & never refer to it when designing recipes.
As Beers excellent link points out, it does not take into account attenuation & hence my bitter that Pumpy just made shows a very high BU:GU ratio, but it's not a very bitter beer at all, as the windsor yeast finishes at approx 1014 giving body & sweetness to balance the hops.
I'm sure it works for some, but I prefer using my knowledge/experience of ingredients when designing my recipes.

cheers Ross

edit: Spelling

 

[Keith the Beer Guy]

As Beers excellent link points out, it does not take into account attenuation & hence my bitter that Pumpy just made shows a very high BU:GU ratio, but it's not a very bitter beer at all, as the windsor yeast finishes at approx 1014 giving body & sweetness to balance the hops.
I'm sure it works for some, but I prefer using my knowledge/experience of ingredients when designing my recipes.

Ross,

I too agree that Beers link is pretty cool, but the author (Viggiano?) does not simply slag out the BU:GU concept; rather the usefulness of the concept is acknowledged and then a constructive suggestion for improvement is made.

"We think that the BU:GU ratio is a useful tool. Like nearly any simple formula not derived from first principles, it has numerous limitations. Yet, in spite of these, it has served the craft- and homebrewing communities well. Our aim here was to provide an alternative which remains almost as simple, but is more robust (and, hence, hopefully even more useful), not to rip apart someone else's suggestion. We're building on someone else's suggestion. And that's how progress is made."

Keith

 

[bconnery]

Persnally not a fan at all & never refer to it when designing recipes.
As Beers excellent link points out, it does not take into account attenuation & hence my bitter that Pumpy just made shows a very high BU:GU ratio, but it's not a very bitter beer at all, as the windsor yeast finishes at approx 1014 giving body & sweetness to balance the hops.
I'm sure it works for some, but I prefer using my knowledge/experience of ingredients when designing my recipes.

cheers Ross

edit: Spelling

The ratio doesn't automatically imply bitterness though. 0.9 may seem high, but it is at the top end, but not outside, the recommended range of BU:GU for English bitters.
This is precisely because the range takes into account the reasons that you mentioned, that most have a body and sweetness to counteract that level.
An English bitter, made with a fairly usual grain bill etc. but bittered with a ratio of only 0.4 or 0.5, might not be so good.
It is designed to be another element of balancing a beer, taken in conjunction with other factors, but like most things in this game, not a gospel.
By limiting your recipes to a certain IBU range for a style and OG based on experience, you'll probably find you are actually kind of using it anyway, just without the maths...

 

[Ross]

Ross,

I too agree that Beers link is pretty cool, but the author (Viggiano?) does not simply slag out the BU:GU concept; rather the usefulness of the concept is acknowledged and then a constructive suggestion for improvement is made.

"We think that the BU:GU ratio is a useful tool. Like nearly any simple formula not derived from first principles, it has numerous limitations. Yet, in spite of these, it has served the craft- and homebrewing communities well. Our aim here was to provide an alternative which remains almost as simple, but is more robust (and, hence, hopefully even more useful), not to rip apart someone else's suggestion. We're building on someone else's suggestion. And that's how progress is made."

Keith

I didn't think i ripped it apart at all, it certainly wasn't my intention, I just pointed out it has some deficiences. Infact I said the Beers link was excellent & that article also explained the usefulness of the BU:GU concept.
My point was, that I don't personally find it of use & therefore don't use it.

Cheers Ross

Edit: As BC pointed out, in a way I am probably using it in a way, as I make my beers generally to fall within a style. But I can honestly say, having read up on it thouroughly (loved RD's book) I've never used it as a reference for designing my beers.

 

[Pumpy]

Yep. I use it. You've probably only noticed it as it's a new feature in the recent-ish Beersmith upgrade. I've always kept an eye on that ratio after reading about it in Designing Great Beer. It's not perfect, because it doesn't take account of things like how much crystal is in the grain bill and the attenuation of the yeast you're using, but it's certainly handy to know.

Bitters are not always that high on the BU:GU ratio, but 0.6 is on the low side for a bitter, but certainly a reasonable ratio. 0.2 though!
And how did you find Ross' First Gold bitter at 0.9. :lol:

Yes Stu 0.6 is low for a bitter they were ESB 's but they are recipes I followed , I did not make myself clear but the one that was 0.2 was a Saison

I am only tasing Ross's First Gold Bitter 0.9 BU:GU ratio out of the Fermenter and it seemed quite nice ( I am hopless at judging beers out of the fermenter a chill and a bit of gas seems to change a beer totally to me ) but it was about 1.015 so leaving it a couple of days and it may change considerably as the residual sugars diminish and the bitterness omes out more .

I am looking forward to it though .

Pumpy

 

[mtb]

Necro thread time!

So this ratio is derived from IBU / OG. Wouldn't it make more sense to compare IBU to FG considering FG determines the residual body & sweetness of a beer? OG on its own matters little because of the aforementioned factors (yeast attenuation, mash temp which dictates available fermentable sugars), whereas FG is a solid indicator. I may well be wrong on that, someone please put me out of my misery, I've always pondered this.

 

[GibboQLD]

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare IBU to FG considering FG determines the residual body & sweetness of a beer?

See also: Balance Value (had to grab the cached copy off archive.org since the original ceased to exist some time in 2010)...

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I had not really noticed the little box that measures this Bitterness ratio IBU/SG in Beersmith and I started flicking through my recipes and nticed that my more favourite beers tend to range from 0.2-0.6

I suppose the lower means less bitter however I have always thought I was a 'bitterman '

I was just tasting Rosco's First Gold bitter a lowish alchohol bitter out of the fermenter.

It is 0.9 one of the highest IBU/SG ratios i have made .

This looks an interesting tool i have not really utilised .

Do you normally use this ratio ?

Pumpy

Definitely. I take notice of the (beersmith bitterness ratio) very much. Its the important balance range IMO. I know what I typically like its between 0.6 to 1.0 but have gone as low as 0.4. It also can draw your attention to different bitterness character. Its when I give away my beer for outside judgment were they don't like certain bitter bite (Gallaxy hops) but then prefer an IPA with Mosaic hops at a higher bitterness ratio.
Go figure. They complained about the bitterness of one with a lower bitterness ratio. Interesting - (take notes, lots of notes)

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Necro thread time!

****. I didn't see that haha.
So my comment is ten years later. So what. :lol:

 

[Adr_0]

Definitely. I take notice of the (beersmith bitterness ratio) very much. Its the important balance range IMO. I know what I typically like its between 0.6 to 1.0 but have gone as low as 0.4. It also can draw your attention to different bitterness character. Its when I give away my beer for outside judgment were they don't like certain bitter bite (Gallaxy hops) but then prefer an IPA with Mosaic hops at a higher bitterness ratio.
Go figure. They complained about the bitterness of one with a lower bitterness ratio. Interesting - (take notes, lots of notes)

Don't worry about cohumulone, FG or yeast choice or Cl/SO4.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Don't worry about cohumulone, FG or yeast choice or Cl/SO4.

You forgot grain flavours too like dark grains. Oh and carbonation levels, and temperature of the beer etc.
Like I said. Take lots of notes. That basically means pay attention to detail because bitterness definitely deviates with variability other than that Beersmith ratio reading. But I'm grateful that reading is there still...