Bittering with Amarillo - is it a waste?

[philmud]

I'm planning an amarillo wheat beer & which has the following hop schedule:

28g Amarillo @ 60 mins
14g Amarillo @ 20 mins
14g Amarillo @ 5 mins
14g Amarillo @ flame-out

Will the Amarillo at 60mins have much impact on the beer, or should I consider a higher AA general purpose bittering hop to the same IBUs (and if so, which one?).

I'll need to buy the hops either way, so the $$$ difference for this brew is insignificant, but maybe I should be considering a larger quantity of a versatile bittering hop.

 

[nu_brew]

I did "NRB's All Amarillio Ale" as my first and second AG brews and the were both excellent (the first one I accidentally reversed the hop schedule and it was still great). As the name suggests they used Amarillo for bittering.

Edit: bittering not buttering.

 

[philmud]

Mmmm Amarillo on toast?

Yeah, I'm thinking it might be best just to stick with it, but on the other hand, I'm a bit sick of buying small quantities of hops and having drips and drabs left over.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What is the AA% of the hops

 

[carniebrew]

Opinion is significantly divided on this question. Personally I prefer to use a 'bittering' hop for bittering my APA/IPA style beers...in my case Warrior. Others insist on using the same hops for bittering as they do late. I've tried both, and prefer what Warrior gives me in hop-forward beers, and appreciate that the high alpha content lets me use less of it.

Depends on style too, when making a weizen I won't use anything other than a noble hop for bittering. I should try a hef with Warrior one day...

 

[philmud]

What is the AA% of the hops

The recipe says 8%, but it'll depend on what I can get.

Recipe here (thanks Yob for the link/site): http://www.craftedpours.com/homebrew-recipe/amarillo-wheat-beer-homebrew-recipe

It's an American wheat beer brewed with a kölsch, so it's not a traditional hefe or anything. Would warrior, or even cascade go ok here?

 

[Lodan]

In the case of a hop shortage i'd say you want maximum bang for buck from your amarillo so use a different bittering hop and save the the rest for another beer.

Slightly :icon_offtopic:
Carniebrew what does the warrior tend to give in comparison to the late hop as bittering? I've been considering some warrior...

 

[manticle]

Opinion is significantly divided on this question. Personally I prefer to use a 'bittering' hop for bittering my APA/IPA style beers...in my case Warrior. Others insist on using the same hops for bittering as they do late. I've tried both, and prefer what Warrior gives me in hop-forward beers, and appreciate that the high alpha content lets me use less of it.

Depends on style too, when making a weizen I won't use anything other than a noble hop for bittering. I should try a hef with Warrior one day...

I don't think divided opinion is a fair summary. My stance on it is that whatever hop you use for bittering has a chance of making its presence known - bittering hops contribute characteristics other than bittering. Using a higher aa hop is fine so long as the nature of that hop complements the finished beer. For example, using chinook in a soft bohemian pils to save on dough would see you make a piney, resinous beer that would be at odds with the gentle fragrant finish of saaz. As you mention above - it depends on style and what you expect out of the beer.

What I disagree with is when people state that bittering hops add only bittering. That is not true although some are more neutral than others and those characteristics may be disguised by later hopping.

Personally I'd just use amarillo as I consider 8% high enough and it works well as a bittering, flavour and aroma hop but it does also play well with other hops.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What I disagree with is when people state that bittering hops add only bittering. That is not true although some are more neutral than others and those characteristics may be disguised by later
.

Exactly. People say POR is only good for bitterness. But it can make a good aroma hop if used wisely.

There is a lot more to hops than just its AA%. You also need to look at the ratio of the compounds in the hop. The main ones are

Myrcene
Humulene
Caryophyllene
Farnesene


and many others

 

[jotaigna]

IMHO, yes it is a waste. A delicious, zingy waste.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Personally I'd just use amarillo as I consider 8% high enough and it works well as a bittering, flavour and aroma hop but it does also play well with other hops.

I did a pale with Saaz only ( proper czech ). It was only about 4-4.5% AA. Bittered to about 35Ibu with the first 25ish Ibu as bittering. Turned out nice, but used a lot of expensive hops

 

[philmud]

Despite it being a waste, I have put in an order for sufficient Amarillo for the brew, if it's a winner, I'll experiment next time. Cheers for the advice gents.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

An Amarilli Kolsch wheat beer. I could drink that.

 

[philmud]

Yeah it sounds good IMO

 

[carniebrew]

In the case of a hop shortage i'd say you want maximum bang for buck from your amarillo so use a different bittering hop and save the the rest for another beer.

Slightly :icon_offtopic:
Carniebrew what does the warrior tend to give in comparison to the late hop as bittering? I've been considering some warrior...

Very little when it comes to hop forward beers, which is exactly what I'm after. it's a great, cheap way to bitter those styles in my opinion. The late hops completely dominate the aroma and flavour, with the Warrior giving a solid bitterness. I've bittered these styles previously with Amarillo, Cascade, Galaxy, Centennial and others, but now use solely Warrior.

Edit: Here's something that might be of interest, from page 243 of "Hops" by Stan H:

Sierra Nevada Brewing does not always use the same hop variety for the bittering addition in its pale ale, which is about as iconic as an American craft beer can be.

It goes on to say they have contracts for multiple varieties, and pick and choose based on crop quality each year.

 

[philmud]

Carnie, out of interest, how did your Hopfweizenbock come up? (Aside from the dry hop - I think I read you felt the galaxy was in there too long).

 

[jaypes]

I made a munich/amarillo smash - turned out to me one of the best beers i have made.

Only because I love amarillo so much.

Even tried eating it once, dont do that again!

 

[carniebrew]

I'm a massive fan of Amarillo too, probably my first ever Dr Smurto Golden Ale is to blame (which I bittered with Amarillo, of course). Not enough to EAT it though...what did it taste like jaypes??

Re hopfweizenbock...it's hard to tell Prince, it's only been in the bottle 8 days, and with my sneaky taster a couple of days ago I couldn't taste anything but full on raw Galaxy...I'm hoping it fades, but given it hasn't in my 3 month old Galaxy SMaSH I don't have high hopes....

 

[jaypes]

Its an acquired taste! Give it a go!

 

[DJR]

if you want to save your amarillo, go ahead. Use something like magnum, perle or warrior for the bittering side of things (low cohumulone so smooth bitterness, highish AA and not much flavour contribution) or even something like Simcoe or Mosaic

I would just bitter with the amarillo though