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BIAB Trub

Discussion in 'General Brewing Techniques' started by Beats_MC, 24/9/17.

 

  1. Beats_MC

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    Posted 24/9/17
    Hi all,

    I BIAB, and have been trying to identify the source of my excessive trub with no luck.
    I used to use a paint strainer as a hop bag, but found that the bag would become so clogged with hop gunk that no wort was passing out of (and therefore presumably into and through) the hop bag. At this time I was getting a lot of trub, but pouring it all into the fermenter anyway.

    Since then I have moved to throwing hops straight into the boil, and I have also started using Brewbrite and trying to siphon clear wort and leave the trub behind.

    I slow hoist the BIAB bag, and do not squeeze (ie just let it dribble).
    I use an immersion chiller after boiling, whirlpool and let settle for about 30 minutes before siphoning. I have not been able to develop a trub cone, it just sits flat on the bottom, although I have read that this can be because of the rounded bottom of a keggle.

    The result has been 5-6L of trub being left behind from a 20L post boil volume, which is way more than other appear to have (based on my trawling of the forums). On average about my recent recipes have been using about 80g of hop pellets.

    My deductions below;

    Contributors to the trub:
    - Hot break
    - Cold break
    - Grain flour
    - Hop material

    Possible causes:
    - Fine crush making it through BIAB bag - consequence of BIAB, could double bag?
    - No longer using hop bag, but I figure 5-6L of trub is excessive for hop material.
    - Using too much brewbrite - I have heard that this is possible, but not seen any evidence. I use 4g per brew at present.


    I don't know if it's possible to tell different types of trub from a photo, but photo attached anyway.
    Short of just pouring the trub into the fermenter, or brewing larger batches to compensate for the trub loss, I'd appreciate any suggestions as to how to reduce trub with BIAB.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. wereprawn

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    Posted 24/9/17
    If you are milling your own grain, you could try milling more coarsely or condition your malt. You can ask your LHBS to mill more coarsely.
     
  3. mstrelan

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    Posted 24/9/17
    From your description it sounds like you could try a coarser crush. I have no idea really if that would help but sounds plausible to me.
     
  4. Markbeer

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    Posted 24/9/17
    I used to have large trub losses when I used BIAB.

    I moved to 3v and it's much less. Not why I changed and not worth it for less trub only.

    If you can recirc or vorlauf that's what reduces trub. My efficiency gain wasn't huge When going 3v.

    When I BIAB, I squeezed my bag and had great efficiency into kettle but ended up similar to 3v into fermenters due to extra trub.

    Managing a good whirlpool is helpful in reducing the loss. I stir over 100 times to make sure it forms a cone.
     
  5. fletcher

    bibo ergo sum

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    Posted 24/9/17
    i can see beer left on top of your trub pile. you could also get an elbow fitting for inside your kettle so it pulls beer from the side. that helped net me a good 1-2L more when I BIAB'd
     
  6. MHB

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    Posted 24/9/17
    There are a couple of good suggestions above, I would try: -
    Milling Coarser
    Not squeezing the bag (can add a lot of protein and flour to the boil = more trub)
    You already mentioned lifting the bag slowly
    You are right that we tend to get a less well defined Trub Cone in a domed vessel
    A pickup tube that you can adjust might help, I tend to make them out of 1/2" Stainless tube and fix them with a silicone grommet or a Kinko nut and olive. If it is adjustable you can follow the wort down and stop when you start to see trub flowing.

    Its good to see that your wort is so clear, means that your flock (both hot and cold break) has settled well. Which indicates you are doing most things right.
    One point that stands out for me is that the recommended dose for BrewBrite is 10-20g/hL (100L) with 15 being typical, You look to be using about the right amount, but that can depend a lot on the wort gravity and a few other factors, it might be worth playing with that dose, sometimes too much can make a very fluffy trub. How you use BB can make a lot of difference to, I find making it up as a slurry in a couple of hundred mills of cold water, letting it sit to hydrate for 10 minutes, then re-stirring it before adding it to the established whirlpool (after you have finished stirring).

    Typical losses to hot break and hops together would usually be in the 5-10% of the kettle volume, that's probably for small commercial brewhouses, your 20ish% loss is certainly on the high side.

    Where are you located? someone might be able to fix you up you with some pipe work, if that's any help.
    Mark
     
  7. Stouter

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    Posted 24/9/17
    Maybe look at your bag material too. The one I've always used I bought from a brew shop and just assumed that was the standard material, but a friend pointed out that it's a more open weave than his. It became even more evident when I pulled the hop sock out after 60mins (same material) and it was empty. First time that's ever happened!
    Got me self a roll of that fancy Swiss voile now though, just need to make up the bags.
    All that said though, I used gelatine for the first time on a Pale recently and it's crystal clear, even with the old bag. Worth a thought though.
     
  8. stewy

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    Posted 25/9/17
    Coarser crush & (manually) recirculating during mash out has reduced my trub. I am now getting approx 2 litres more wort into the fermenter
     
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  9. Beats_MC

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    Posted 25/9/17
    Thanks for all of the helpful tips.
    I don't have a mill, so thus far haven't been controlling how fine the crush has been. In saying that, it is likely going to be my next investment.
    The bag is just off the shelf from the local brew shop - will look for swiss voile (Spotlight?).

    In the photo attached, I left a bit of clear wort in the keggle, because I thought it made it easier to see the trub level.
    In the future instead of only siphoning clear wort, perhaps I'll take ~1l of trub as well to ensure that I'm not leaving any clear wort behind.

    I don't really see the benefit of a pickup tube when I can hold the siphon against the side of the keggle, and follow the wort down to trub level. I usually have a bright torch over the wort so I can see the trub level clearly before I reach it.
     
  10. Bribie G

    Adjunct Professor

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    Posted 25/9/17
    Can't offer any real suggestions here apart from the voile. No need to make a bag, I just use a circle of voile, hemmed, and just hang up like a hobo's swag - far easier to empty and wash as well.

    Trotting out old piccie, this is my typical residue in the urn. The "grain bag" from craftbrewer is similar to the paint straining bag, I use it as a hop bag find it allows the wort to circulate freely but traps the vegetal material from pellets as well as flowers.

    greatly reduced trub IPA.jpg
     
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  11. Uberdrucken

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    Posted 30/4/18
     
  12. Uberdrucken

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    Posted 30/4/18
    I have been noticing the same problem with my BIAB. I am now using malt conditioning to tone down the husk powder in my grind, grinding coarser to tone it all down. Still getting lots of trub though and too much in my opinion. I want clear wort in my kettle to reduce the fatty acids in my wort, like a commercial brewery would obsess about. I have built an inexpensive recirc system using a 12V solar pump, silicone hoses and fittings to bring wort from under my Bag to the top of the grain bed. I hope this will work. I am wondering if I should go further and build a cheap grain basket to hold my bag: a stainless tube just slightly smaller than my pot with some cross members on the bottom to hold the bag inside the tube. I am concerned that upon lifting my bag, I will deform the grain bed, disrupt the grains and release cloud material back into my wort. Any thoughts would be welcome.
     
  13. stm

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    Posted 2/5/18
    Do you mash-out? Try lifting the bag (slowly) at the end of the mash without any agitation or stirring. That is, don't bother with a mash-out (which for BIAB, means you have to stir the mash as it increases in temp). Just turn the element on after you have lifted the bag out.
     

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