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Biab Barleywine

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primusbrew

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Hi brewers,

A brewing mate of mining is moving overseas indefinitely in a few weeks and we have decided to make a beer that will age well so that we can drink it when we catch up over the next few years. I was thinking that a Barleywine would be a good option.

After doing a bit of research in Radical Brewing, How to Brew and this link I have put together a recipe. I am an AG BIAB brewer and I was hoping to get some feedback from people who have made a similar beer before. This is my first go at a "big" beer.

English Barleywine
Type: All Grain Date: 12/06/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 18.00 l Brewer:
Boil Size: 22.59 l Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 19.75 l Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 17.00 l Est Mash Efficiency 74.2 %

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.50 kg Maris Otter (Crisp) (7.9 EBC) Grain 1 76.5 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 2 11.8 %
0.50 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 3 5.9 %
1.0 pkg London Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1028) [124.21 ml] Yeast 8 -
60.00 g Target [11.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 66.0 IBUs
40.00 g Target [11.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 24.9 IBUs
40.00 g Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 3.7 IBUs
0.50 kg Candi Sugar, Dark (541.8 EBC) Sugar 4 5.9 %

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.106 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 12.3 %
Bitterness: 94.6 IBUs Calories: 427.1 kcal/l
Est Color: 63.6 EBC


I am not too sure what to do with the hops for this type of beer. As the plan is to drink this over 3-5 years (actually I'll probably drink a few young as well) is there any point putting in late addition hops? I like the idea of the dark candi sugar but have never used it before and am not sure how much to use or whether to go for the Dark 1 or the Dark 2.

With the mash I plan to do a standard BIAB and then reduce the volume to 18L through an extended boil. Has anyone experienced issues in the mash with such a high gravity?

Any advice would be great.

Cheers
 

chunckious

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Using a 3:1 water to grain mash ratio I have never been able to get my OG above 1.078.
From my experience BIAB isnt suited to high gravity styles.
 

Nick JD

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Not sure 1028 can do 12%.
 

primusbrew

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Hey Nick I think you're right. The Wyeast website says it can go up to 11%. It might be a good idea to bring down the OG into this range.

Chunkious, any idea how high an OG can be reached through BIAB? I was thinking that an extended boil and the addition of candi syrup could get the OG up.
 

Markbeer

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To get a high gravity using BIAB, do 1/2 your grain bill, drain the bag, measure your gravity.

Then repeat the process with new grains. Your efficiency drops using this method but this is the only way I have gotten a high gravity. The efficiency for me drops to below 60%.


Then you may have to add some DME or LME to get it up to the level you want.



Chunkious, any idea how high an OG can be reached through BIAB? I was thinking that an extended boil and the addition of candi syrup could get the OG up.
 

Bribie G

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RdeVjun and I did a Russian Imperial Stout last year which yielded 1095 and not too bad efficiency.

However we did a fair batch sparge then lautered that in a bucket with a false bottom, poured it all back into the urn in two stages and did a two and a half hour boil with urn plus an immersion heater. They had to kick in a separate generator at Callide B.

brewday was from 2pm to Midnight and boy were we pissed by the end of it :lol:

edit: We were going for a full 21L cube so the urn was really beyond its limits. For anything around 12% I'd be looking at LDME for sure, or go for a 15L cube instead.

Also note the hops, but that was for a RIS. Actually it's still in the cube (shock horror) so still trying to work out what yeast.

Russian Imperial Stout


Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 22.0
Total Grain (kg): 9.475
Total Hops (g): 130.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.095 (P): 22.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.022 (P): 5.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 9.55 %
Colour (SRM): 54.7 (EBC): 107.8
Bitterness (IBU): 84.6 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
6.500 kg Pale Malt Golden Promise (68.6%)
0.600 kg Pale Malt Oakey (6.33%)
0.500 kg Choc Chit JW (5.28%)
0.400 kg Amber Malt (4.22%)
0.375 kg Brown Sugar, Light (3.96%)
0.300 kg Black Roasted Barley (3.17%)
0.300 kg Carafa II malt (3.17%)
0.300 kg Flaked Barley (3.17%)
0.200 kg Crystal Heritage Simpsons (2.11%)

Hop Bill
----------------
40.0 g Magnum Pellet (12.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.8 g/L)
30.0 g Magnum Pellet (12.5% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (1.4 g/L)
30.0 g Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (1.4 g/L)
30.0 g Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (1.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20C with Wyeast 1056 - American Ale


Recipe Generated with BrewMate
 

black_labb

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I'd do a big sparge, even in a fermentoy if you don't have a big enough pot. You could use the runnings to brew a smaller beer.
 

Aces High

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Shouldn't a larger grain bill & longer boil get you where you need to go. Using BIAB i can get to about 1.070 by using a larger grain bill. After that it seem more grain just gives you dimishing returns.

Then a 2 or 3 hour boil maybe to get to desired OG. Obviously you need a larger pot to handle this.
 

Mayor of Mildura

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Not sure 1028 can do 12%.
You might get close. I've used it in a 10% beer and then bottle conditioned with this yeast. no problem. Make a smaller beer first and then pitch onto the cake with the big beer.

To get a high gravity using BIAB, do 1/2 your grain bill, drain the bag, measure your gravity.

Then repeat the process with new grains. Your efficiency drops using this method but this is the only way I have gotten a high gravity. The efficiency for me drops to below 60%.


Then you may have to add some DME or LME to get it up to the level you want.
This works but takes a long time.

I'd do a big sparge, even in a fermentoy if you don't have a big enough pot. You could use the runnings to brew a smaller beer.
this is what i do. mash with a conventional liquor to grist ratio drain the runnings to another pot and then sparge. efficiency is still low but not as time consuming as the reiterated mash method.

If you're happy with a lower volume go the standard mash and extended boil.

I'm not so sure about extract in these really big beers. You want them to ferment right out so that they are more drinkable and not so cloying. I'd be more inclined to add sugar to up the OG.

I'd say go for the late hop addition. It will add to the beer even with extended conditioning.

I love brewing bigger beers they might take a little longer to make and condition but the end result is worth it.
 

hyjak71

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Recently did a RIS BIAB and managed 1.070 with a big batch sparge, 90min boil and I hit my target.
Must say though that next time I do a big beer I think I'll modify my recipe to allow the use of extract or similar, 10.5kg of grain was a bit difficult to manage with no pulley to bring it out of the pot.
 

primusbrew

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Hi all, I really appreciate the comments. So by the sounds of it, I can aim for a pre boil gravity of 1.070, at say a 60% mash efficiency, and then give it a 120min boil to reduce the volume and up the OG to about 1.090.

In this article it mentions adding some of the fermentables during primary fermentation. I was thinking that I could add the candi syrup and extra malt extract to the primary if the gravity doesn't get high enough. I am pretty keen to avoid the use ofextract if possible though.

Just out of interest, does anyone know why the gravity in a mash cannot procede past a certain level?

Mayor I'm a fan of bigger beers too. Making one has always been a little intimidating but I'm pretty excited about it.
 

robbo5253

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If looking to add during the ferment, why not do a simple mash and then boil until you hit the gravity you want then add it in?

Cheers

Robbo
 

edschache

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Has anyone had success in a 40L urn doing a big beer into a 10L cube? I've got a couple of 10L cubes and have been meaning to give it a crack and this conversation has just reminded me.

Cheers,

Ed
 

primusbrew

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Hey Robbo I like that idea. It'll mean a little extra work but solves a few problems.
This is going to be a complicated brew. Should be fun though...
 

hoppy2B

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I just been considering exactly this sort of thing recently. I'm wanting to make a proper IPA.
If I boil about 10 litres in a 15 litre K-Mart pot I can get it down to about 5 litres in 90 minutes easy. I have 2 pots I can boil simultaneously.
As long as you've got the burners or can do 1 on the kitchen stove you might be able to do something similar.
The other option of a longer boil should give better hop isomerisation as mentioned by some commercial brewers.
 

manticle

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120 minutes is about the maximum time you want to boil hops before the bittering effect starts becoming lost due to changes in the compounds.

That's from what I've read, not tried so might be interesting to do a small batch one day and test a side by side.
 

hoppy2B

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120 minutes is about the maximum time you want to boil hops before the bittering effect starts becoming lost due to changes in the compounds.

That's from what I've read, not tried so might be interesting to do a small batch one day and test a side by side.
Yeah that sounds pretty right. Even beyond 90 minutes is probably not adding much.
I was reading Encyclopaedia Britannica a couple of days ago and it states, " The wort is next boiled with hops for up to 2 1/2 hours in large kettles."
It kind of just stuck in my head. :D
 

Nick JD

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I always make big beers and dilute them. If I'm making 17L of 1.055, my pre-dilution wort is 1.080

So if a 19L pot can make 10L of 1.095 doing nothing fancy ... no excuses for not being able to make 20L of it without adjuncts.

One of the advantages of learning some high gravity skills - normal gravity brewing is a cakewalk.
 

edschache

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I was reading Encyclopaedia Britannica a couple of days ago and it states, " The wort is next boiled with hops for up to 2 1/2 hours in large kettles."
you mean like this one?

hugekettle1929.jpg
 

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