BIAB - Bag Holder (Like the Crab Cooker insert)

[m3taL]

Hey guys,

I'm now going to play with bits & pieces i have available to do some testing and playing before i start building my Single Vessel Recirc BIAB System....

I'll be doing most of the SS work myself as i will have a whole sheety workshop at my fingertips in the next few months (works expansion)

What im going to play with is using a HDPE Bucket as my Bag cage and holesaw some 20mm holes into it and than add bolts to the bottom to hold it up off the bottom, will allow to me to mash out easier with my gas burner setup i run at the moment and if i wanted to sparge to be able to make a larger volume in the rig i run at the moment it would be much easier

What i need advice on is where to locate the holes, How many holes, Diameter (thinking 20mm)

My voile bag will go inside the bucket and then mash into it.....

I'm also thinking about getting a pump to make a recirc via a manifold at the top of the bucket to spray/drip wort back into the grainbed.

I'm thinking that maybe 2 rings of 20mm holes around the base of the bucket, maybe 50mm apart and one in the centre of the bottom of the bucket to make sure it runs dry.

or would it be better to run 20mm holes all the way up the sides of the bucket at 100mm spacings around the bucket and say 50mm spacings up the side....

is more better or is it better to only let wort run out the bottom.....

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I would concentrate most holes on the opposite end to wort in flow (bottom) this way you re circ thru the whole grain bed not just some off it.
This will also stop the bag from being locked into the side holes by the expanding bag.
Also try and get some type of screen between bucket and bag that way the holes will behave more like taps from the bucket bottom
and not compacted hemorrhoids.
I like your idea but I know some will say "its not BIAB"
Nev

 

[m3taL]

Cheers Mate,

Its not really BIAB in the simple term, but its a variation there of..... i'd love to do a malt pipe setup like a meister! and may even do it.. when i build the final rig

could also just swap too 13mm holes in the bottom and one or two rings around the base, may stop that hemmaroid effect that 20mm holes would produce hahaha, bag is just there to hold the grains.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Typically a false bottom on a Euro lauter tun will be only 20% open of the total screen area , this way the sparge meets more resistance from the screen than the grain bed and helps to stop
grain bed compaction. Use this to calculate your "screen holes", and yes go for more smaller ones than fewer larger holes.
Nev

 

[m3taL]

Anyone got any idea on how to work out 20% spacings on a 10mm hole diameter to make it easyier.

I'm gathering 100% is open so 50% would be 10mm of full space between hole edges so 15mm would be 25% so if I worked it out to be around 17mm between edges + 5mm for half the hole 22mm hole centres may be close to 20% for a 10mm hole.....

Or I'm way off.... **** knows

Edit...typo

 

[stux]

πr2 = area

10mm = 5mm2 * 3.1416 = 78.54

your base is x mm in diameter,

say its 400mm, so 200mm in radius, 40000 * 3.146 = 125,664

125,664 * 20% = 25,132

25,132 / 78.4 = 320 holes



work out how many holes, then work out a pattern to get that

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Anyone got any idea on how to work out 20% spacings on a 10mm hole diameter to make it easyier.

I'm gathering 100% is open so 50% would be 10mm of full space between hole edges so 15mm would be 25% so if I worked it out to be around 17mm between edges + 5mm for half the hole 22mm hole centres may be close to 20% for a 10mm hole.....

Or I'm way off.... **** knows

Edit...typo

Work out the total area of the base and divide buy five, that should give you 20% of the area.
Nev

 

[bum]

buy five

Typical retailer. h34r:

 

[m3taL]

Iv not had to do this **** since trade school.... Lazy sheety......

Bazinga!!

Cheers guys!!

 

[m3taL]

Typical retailer. h34r:

Lol!!!!

 

[Bribie G]

About 18 months ago I did a brew in a bucket system with the bucket acting as a solid "bag" and simply jugged wort through it to "recirc". It wasn't too bad but I found that the grain left in the bucket was holding on to too much wort and needed a sparge to help with efficiency. Went back to BIAB - ya gotta try these things I suppose.

I used a few layers of voile over a woolies metal mesh strainer bashed into shape and some hose to act as a "circlip" to hold it all in place.

Edit: of course I cut the handles off the strainer first.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Typical retailer. h34r:

Fu..ker ! Rip my content like that!
Code monkey, dish washer -_-
Nev

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Glad I didnt say BI.
Nev

 

[Thirsty Boy]

If you want to re-circ - presumably for wort clarity.... I 'd go further than Nev and say no holes in the sides at all.

If you are re-circing, you've moved away from the BIAB paradigm and into the Braumeister paradigm. They aren't the same. Sorry to sound elitist, but BIAB brewers often dont see it because they have no experience and feel for how grainbeds work - and they dont work sideways, through holes in the sides, They work vertically through depth filtration.

Holes in the bottom, none in the sides - and if you want something that will work as well as it could - then you might as well leave the bag out of the equation altogether and instead of having big holes plus bag.... just have false bottom sized holes and use it as a genuine flase bottom with the correct (or close to it) ratio of hole to solid. Can leave the bag in there if you insist, but its maybe going to be more hinderance than help.

SV recirculating vessels AREN'T biab.... they just aren't. That doesn't mean they aren't any good - but they have a hell of a lot more in common with recirculating multi vessel systems than BIAB, and thats where you should be looking for your hints, tips and advice if you aren't finding your answers from other brewers who have made SV recirculating systems.

 

[Crusty]

I fully agree with TB.
Trying to to find a system in between Biab & Braumeister is a bit pointless really, either do Biab in a bag or Braumeister without the bag.
I'm not saying at all that you can't or shouldn't have a go at something in between but somehow, the simplicity of Biab is really starting to lose ground with people coming up with systems that are more like the traditional ways of brewing. The Braumeister concept is fantastic if you are trying to replicate the 3V technique with one vessel. I love my Biab setup but would still like to get my hands on a Braumeister. I don't believe the Braumeister will make a better finished beer than I am making now but it just has a couple of little extras like step mashing & constant mash temp control that are easier to obtain than my current Biab rig.

I'm not knocking anyone that decides to go the in between route.
There are some great looking rigs on this site that sit somewhere in between the two systems with some clever designing going on.
If you can make something like the commercial option for much less coin, it's obviously worth a shot & it's proving to be quite successful for most, if not all of them.

 

[QldKev]

To differentiate, I call traditional BIAB BIAB (took ages to think of that name for it) and recirculating systems with fancy **** like a Braumeister a 1V.

If your using a bucket for the mash pipe, why not piss the bag itself off and drill small holes / grind slots into the bottom of bucket. Then you wont have issues with only a small % of the Swiss voile trying to drain all the wort. If you drill say 20% of the bottom, but then line it with a bag which may have 50% (?) openings, you only end up with 10% open of the bottom.

QldKev

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I feel the OP was looking at a transitional phase before the full snip and tuck something like BIAB+B - brew in a bag+bucket ??
TB I did mean holes only in the bottom for the same reasons you mentioned, great minds think alike :beer:
I dont see a problem with the BIAB+B as he already has a bag and presumably a bucket, no more x-pense.
HINT TO OP Dont mention BIAB and you may get away with it h34r:
Nev

 

[Crusty]

Has anyone just gone out & bought the malt pipe for the Braumeister & used that in their own rig.

 

[m3taL]

If you want to re-circ - presumably for wort clarity.... I 'd go further than Nev and say no holes in the sides at all.

If you are re-circing, you've moved away from the BIAB paradigm and into the Braumeister paradigm. They aren't the same. Sorry to sound elitist, but BIAB brewers often dont see it because they have no experience and feel for how grainbeds work - and they dont work sideways, through holes in the sides, They work vertically through depth filtration.

Holes in the bottom, none in the sides - and if you want something that will work as well as it could - then you might as well leave the bag out of the equation altogether and instead of having big holes plus bag.... just have false bottom sized holes and use it as a genuine flase bottom with the correct (or close to it) ratio of hole to solid. Can leave the bag in there if you insist, but its maybe going to be more hinderance than help.

SV recirculating vessels AREN'T biab.... they just aren't. That doesn't mean they aren't any good - but they have a hell of a lot more in common with recirculating multi vessel systems than BIAB, and thats where you should be looking for your hints, tips and advice if you aren't finding your answers from other brewers who have made SV recirculating systems.

Makes a little more sence now, i'd love to build a brewy clone and when iv got the machinery available and some more spare splurgeable funds i will definatly make somthing similar

Recirc no so much for clarity, more for doing Stepped mashing and being able to hold temp more consistantly through the wort.

I fully agree with TB.
Trying to to find a system in between Biab & Braumeister is a bit pointless really, either do Biab in a bag or Braumeister without the bag.
I'm not saying at all that you can't or shouldn't have a go at something in between but somehow, the simplicity of Biab is really starting to lose ground with people coming up with systems that are more like the traditional ways of brewing. The Braumeister concept is fantastic if you are trying to replicate the 3V technique with one vessel. I love my Biab setup but would still like to get my hands on a Braumeister. I don't believe the Braumeister will make a better finished beer than I am making now but it just has a couple of little extras like step mashing & constant mash temp control that are easier to obtain than my current Biab rig.

I'm not knocking anyone that decides to go the in between route.
There are some great looking rigs on this site that sit somewhere in between the two systems with some clever designing going on.
If you can make something like the commercial option for much less coin, it's obviously worth a shot & it's proving to be quite successful for most, if not all of them.

I'm a tinker'er i love to play with things and try make stuff that works from what i have at hand

To differentiate, I call traditional BIAB BIAB (took ages to think of that name for it) and recirculating systems with fancy **** like a Braumeister a 1V.

If your using a bucket for the mash pipe, why not piss the bag itself off and drill small holes / grind slots into the bottom of bucket. Then you wont have issues with only a small % of the Swiss voile trying to drain all the wort. If you drill say 20% of the bottom, but then line it with a bag which may have 50% (?) openings, you only end up with 10% open of the bottom.

QldKev

Cheers Kev, I hadnt thought about it like that.... very much an overlooked thing....
I'm thinking along these lines more for the Easy Sparge having it in the bucket and being able to use my gas burner to bring it upto Mash out, as the bucket keeps it up off the bottom using a similar Stainless Steel bolt arrangement as Big Nath used to raise the bucket off the bottom 50mm

 

[QldKev]

In my smaller system, the 1V setup, I went a pseudo false bottom made from a pizza tray with legs and used a normal BIAB bag to keep the bag away from the element. The good thing is it doesn't have to be a tight fit around the sides etc.

I think the bucket with holes/slots and some legs attached would work a treat. It would also be a perfect fit when lifting it out of the way to drop into another handi-pal.

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