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Bestmalz Dark Wheat Malt - need mashing?

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carniebrew

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The question is probably bigger than just this particular malt (see heading)...how can you tell if a grain is a specialty malt that doesn't mashing, or one that does?

I'm looking to use something like Weyermann's CaraWheat in an upcoming dunkel. I understand that doesn't need mashing (I generally use this chart to check if i'm not sure). I noticed G&G don't stock CaraWheat, but saw Bestmalz Dark Wheat Malt on their website. Looked it up, and for the life of me can't tell if it needs mashing or not. The chart above has a dark wheat that needs a mash, and a caramel wheat and chocolate wheat that don't.

I'll ask G&G about the Bestmalz, but just wondering if there's some way to know these things?
 

Cocko

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May be way off here but my general rule of thumb - If it has 'Cara' in the name it is a specialty malt, needing only steeping not a full mash....

Happy to be corrected, interested if correct as this is my own assumption.

That said, if you are full mash brewing, just put it in for the full mash, can't go wrong.

2c.
 

bum

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Weyermann's dark wheat needs mashing so I'd imagine Bestmalz's would likely need it also.

I find the info on Craftbrewer's site is usually pretty helpful in this regard.

[EDIT: really odd typo]
 

mckenry

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Cocko is right Carnie. You can mash everything, but not steep everything. I thought you were full AG? That way, dont even worry, just mash.
Do you have a reason you have to know?
 

carniebrew

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I brew extract with specialty grain, no mash...hence the question.

My understanding is the same Cocko, Cara-something from Weyermann are grains that don't need mashing. Same for anything with Crystal in the name apparently. But that doesn't work for every company and brand...as shown by the chart I linked above, which has grains like "chocolate wheat malt" that don't need a mash.
 

AndrewQLD

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It's not technically a specialty malt as in a crystal malt, it can be used up to 60% of the grain bill and does require mashing, it's a really nice malt in a Dunkel Weizen.
 

bum

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Darker (more highly kilned) malts are less likely to need mashing. There's probably some exceptions that I'm unaware of but that's the closest you'll probably get to the rule of thumb you're looking for without learning how malts are made.
 

AndrewQLD

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From the Best Malz site http://www.bestmalz.de/en/glossary/base-malt__25.htm

"Beer & Malt
Base Malt
Malt is often divided into two categories by brewers: base malts and specialty malts.
Base malts have enough diastatic power to convert their own starch and usually that of some amount of starch from unmalted grain, called adjuncts.
Base malts are BEST Pilsen Malt, BEST Vieana Malt, BEST Munich Malt, BEST Wheat Malt.

Specialty malts have (mostly) little diastatic power. They are used to provide flavor, color, or "body" (viscosity) to the finished beer. Caramel or crystal malts are specialty malts that have been subjected to heat treatment that converts their starches to sugars non-enzymatically. Within these categories are a variety of types distinguished largely by the kilning temperature.
Speciality malts are: BEST Caramel Malt Pils, light and dark, BEST Aromatic Malt, BEST Melanoidin Malt, BEST Black Malt (roasted malt), BEST Acidulated Malt, BEST Smoked Malt, BEST Chit Malt."

I would assume the Wheat malt would include the light and the dark as both of their specs are pretty much identical apart from color.
 

carniebrew

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Thanks Andrew, it does look like dark wheat malt would be in the wheat malt base category. I suspected so....will need to ask G&G if they have any specialty wheat malt.

I'm still slightly confused on the subject of specialty grain adding fermentables to the wort. All my software suggests spec grain definitely adds fermentable sugar (FG doesn't go up as much as OG, so the abv increases), but then you get posts like this that say: "Anything roasted is almost certainly unfermentable and carapils is intended to be unfermentable", and plenty more like that....
 

bum

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People try to teach other people all sorts of things without knowing if they are true or not.
 

GuyQLD

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My god the misinformation in that thread Carnie.

Google how Crystal malts are made; it will explain why your OG goes up. Short answer is - there's sugar in dem dere grains boyo, and dem yeasts luvs it.

Edit: Probably should mention there's a number of dextrines also created that aren't fermentable; which is why crystal malts are touted as great for improving head/flavour in kits'n'bits.
 

carniebrew

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Yes, I had googled exactly that. Which is why all the posts (even on AHB) saying caramel and/or crystal malts are unfermentable are so bloody confusing.....But as you say, sugar they have, so ignore them I will. Cheers.
 

bum

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People usually say cara/crystal malts add unfermentable sugars - which they do. Well, sugars that are unfermentable in the usual set of circumstances anyway.

[EDIT: weird tags]
 

verysupple

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Just to clarify, crystal malts already have their starch converted to sugars. Some of the sugars are fermentable (glucose, maltose, maltotriose etc.) and some are not fermentable (dextrins etc.). The amounts of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars in the crystal malt depends on the type. eg. CaraPils (sometimes called a dextrin malt) is mostly dextrins and is not very fermentable while CaraMunich has more fermentables along with dextrins.

As for whether you can steep specialty grains (not crystal), the answer is usually yes but it acts differently to when you mash it. If you steep specialty malt you can get some of its characteristic flavour but you are unlikely to get much in the way of fermentables for a few reasons. 1) They usually have low diastatic power (low on enzymes) and therefore don't convert very well in the absence of base malt. 2) Even if they have enough enzymes to convert, the temperature is critical and is unlikely to be in the correct range long enough while steeping.

And to finish with my 2c: If you're already steeping grains, why not take the small step and add a little base malt and do partial mashes. That way you can use all the specialty grains you want without having to worry :)
 

Florian

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***insert Off topic emoticon***

Carnie, we were just wondering, as we haven't seen it before:

Did you 'make'Andrew's post best answer's or how did that happen?
 

carniebrew

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I clicked the "Mark Solved" button on Andrew's post, yep (which I imagine only shows up for the topic starter). Didn't know what the result would be, but it seemed to work out ok.

Strangely the button appears on my posts in this topic too...I was originally going to click the button on my final post above, which now I guess would have made that post the "answer" shown at the top. Looks like it can be fixed though, there's now a "Mark Unsolved" button on Andrew's post.

Pics of buttons:

solved.jpg


unsolved.JPG
 

AndrewQLD

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carniebrew said:
I clicked the "Mark Solved" button on Andrew's post, yep (which I imagine only shows up for the topic starter). Didn't know what the result would be, but it seemed to work out ok.

Strangely the button appears on my posts in this topic too...I was originally going to click the button on my final post above, which now I guess would have made that post the "answer" shown at the top. Looks like it can be fixed though, there's now a "Mark Unsolved" button on Andrew's post.

Pics of buttons:
Feel free to mark it "unsolved" if you want.
Don't want to give all these conspiracy theorists a heart attack
 

carniebrew

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Fark that. You solved my question, I clicked the button.

Admittedly there are a few posts above that I can't see thanks to the much-appreciated ignore function, so apologies if I missed something re a conspiracy.
 

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