Best Conical Pressurised fermenter

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RobB

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I saw this in Keg King stainless steel Apollo, looks the goods.

.View attachment 122289 View attachment 122290
 

Ballaratguy

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For me fridges would be preferable but glycol chiller a necessity due to space constraints. Got it second hand for a good price at least…
I had a fridge but there’s no way that the ss conical would fit especially once the butterfly valve is on it. Let alone the hop bong or even a sight glass to allow for oxygen free dry hopping
I’ve already got the g20 glychol chiller $250 brand new. It was too good to not get it😀😀
 

KegLand-com-au

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As far as stainless steel fermenters go there are several brands that exist but some fundamental aspects are important to consider. I am obviously biased and think our gear is the stuff to go with, but what I will do is give some general advice that I think applies to all brands:

1. I believe that pressure is important. You don't need high pressure as there is not much point to ferment in any more than 0.5 bar. Pressure means you have a more flexible vessel that you can simply do more in and it's easier to limit oxygen exposure. If you can get up to 1-1.5bar then you can also quite effectively carbonate in the vessel which is another significant advantage.
2. At a minimum use a 2inch dump valve if you plan to dry hop in the fermenter. We have tried smaller and it simply doesn't work well and tends to either block up or not dump all the contents in the cone effectively.
3. You need a way to crash chill so basically you have two options. Glycol or a fridge/fermentation chamber. I personally prefer getting a fridge/fermentation chamber as it simply does a better job. You need to make sure you have enough cooling capacity to get down to sub zero temperatures even with very hot ambient temperatures so you can crash chill if you need to. The issue with many domestic fermenters is that the insulation is basic so you end up with a lot of condensation on the hoses, ports, legs and other penetrations in the insulated jacket and you end up with condensation at all these penetrations in the insulation. A fridge/fermentation chamber generally is better insulated, cheaper to run and simply does a better job.
4. With respect to cone angle we have done a considerable amount of research (and so have many others) that a 60degree cone is pretty much as effective as a 90 degree cone but obviously a 90 degree cone is more space efficient and your fermenter will not be so top heavy/high. If you are using glycol then you probably don't care if the fermenter is taller as you probably have plenty of vertical space so you may find a 60 degree cone to suit your needs. If however you are using a fridge/fermentation chamber then you would probably be better off with a 90degree cone as it will have a better chance of fitting in a fridge and being able to fit accessories on the top/bottom of the fermenter.

With respect to the FermZilla SS it's true that this is a stainless steel model of the fermzilla. This will be very efficiently priced and released at the end of this year. We have some new technology in the design of this fermenter but I cant say too much about this model until the patent has been lodged.

I think this is a great thread topic but it's not easy to answer what is the "best" as it really comes down to how you brew.
 

CraftMan

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Kegland shitting on the opposition product, what else could we expect from a mentally corrupt mob.

As far as stainless steel fermenters go there are several brands that exist but some fundamental aspects are important to consider. I am obviously biased and think our gear is the stuff to go with, but what I will do is give some general advice that I think applies to all brands:

1. I believe that pressure is important. You don't need high pressure as there is not much point to ferment in any more than 0.5 bar. Pressure means you have a more flexible vessel that you can simply do more in and it's easier to limit oxygen exposure. If you can get up to 1-1.5bar then you can also quite effectively carbonate in the vessel which is another significant advantage.

Ah yes, you are saying this because your stainless steel fermenter currently under design is not going to hold much prefer as Oli Permezel or whatever rubbish alias he was using in the David Heath forum said.

2. At a minimum use a 2inch dump valve if you plan to dry hop in the fermenter. We have tried smaller and it simply doesn't work well and tends to either block up or not dump all the contents in the cone effectively.

This is based on absolutely nothing at all besides your will to shit on the product.

3. You need a way to crash chill so basically you have two options. Glycol or a fridge/fermentation chamber. I personally prefer getting a fridge/fermentation chamber as it simply does a better job. You need to make sure you have enough cooling capacity to get down to sub zero temperatures even with very hot ambient temperatures so you can crash chill if you need to. The issue with many domestic fermenters is that the insulation is basic so you end up with a lot of condensation on the hoses, ports, legs and other penetrations in the insulated jacket and you end up with condensation at all these penetrations in the insulation. A fridge/fermentation chamber generally is better insulated, cheaper to run and simply does a better job.

Creating issues where there are none. Once again, you are shitting on the product design because yours will be designed using thinner metal (so less resistant to pressure and also cheaper to produce but a lesser quality product) and fewer ports because you guys are cheap.

4. With respect to cone angle we have done a considerable amount of research (and so have many others) that a 60degree cone is pretty much as effective as a 90 degree cone but obviously a 90 degree cone is more space efficient and your fermenter will not be so top heavy/high. If you are using glycol then you probably don't care if the fermenter is taller as you probably have plenty of vertical space so you may find a 60 degree cone to suit your needs. If however you are using a fridge/fermentation chamber then you would probably be better off with a 90degree cone as it will have a better chance of fitting in a fridge and being able to fit accessories on the top/bottom of the fermenter.

Unfortunately there are countless studies online stating clearly that any of the zilla range does not provide a proper conical shape, which is actually deceitful to call something conical when it's not but it's Kegland so we're used to it. At best it's a bowl.

In their book “Brewing Science and Practice, 2004” by Dennis E. Briggs, Chris A. Boulton, Peter A. Brookes and Roger Stevens, the authors establish that true conical fermenters a more cost effective, higher fermentability and better ingredients to beer ratio than non true conical fermenters.

True conical fermenters are described as having a steep angle of 70 degree at the bottom which is required to achieve best results

“An important characteristic of these vessels is the steep angled cone at the base. An angle of minimum 70 degrees is required to allow the yeast to settle into the base of the vessel at the completion of primary fermentation. This allows most of the yeast to be separated, leaving the beer comparatively free of yeast. This has allowed, in some systems, maturation and conditioning to take place in the same vessel as fermentation without the need to centrifuge the beer during transfer to a second vessel for maturation”

With respect to the FermZilla SS it's true that this is a stainless steel model of the fermzilla. This will be very efficiently priced and released at the end of this year. We have some new technology in the design of this fermenter but I cant say too much about this model until the patent has been lodged.

I think this is a great thread topic but it's not easy to answer what is the "best" as it really comes down to how you brew.

Kegland: no respect for anyone else. You start sledging thread after threading sledge and even when a thread isn't related to you, you have to come in and flame things up. You are just sour that Keg King has released this product way before you.
 

Feldon

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Well, that's cast rather a gloom over the evening, hasn't it?
1656060176224.png
 

KegLand-com-au

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Kegland shitting on the opposition product, what else could we expect from a mentally corrupt mob.



Ah yes, you are saying this because your stainless steel fermenter currently under design is not going to hold much prefer as Oli Permezel or whatever rubbish alias he was using in the David Heath forum said.



This is based on absolutely nothing at all besides your will to shit on the product.



Creating issues where there are none. Once again, you are shitting on the product design because yours will be designed using thinner metal (so less resistant to pressure and also cheaper to produce but a lesser quality product) and fewer ports because you guys are cheap.



Unfortunately there are countless studies online stating clearly that any of the zilla range does not provide a proper conical shape, which is actually deceitful to call something conical when it's not but it's Kegland so we're used to it. At best it's a bowl.

In their book “Brewing Science and Practice, 2004” by Dennis E. Briggs, Chris A. Boulton, Peter A. Brookes and Roger Stevens, the authors establish that true conical fermenters a more cost effective, higher fermentability and better ingredients to beer ratio than non true conical fermenters.

True conical fermenters are described as having a steep angle of 70 degree at the bottom which is required to achieve best results

“An important characteristic of these vessels is the steep angled cone at the base. An angle of minimum 70 degrees is required to allow the yeast to settle into the base of the vessel at the completion of primary fermentation. This allows most of the yeast to be separated, leaving the beer comparatively free of yeast. This has allowed, in some systems, maturation and conditioning to take place in the same vessel as fermentation without the need to centrifuge the beer during transfer to a second vessel for maturation”



Kegland: no respect for anyone else. You start sledging thread after threading sledge and even when a thread isn't related to you, you have to come in and flame things up. You are just sour that Keg King has released this product way before you.

Thanks for that CraftMan. I am all ears and welcome other opinions but I struggle to work out where this negativity comes from. I dont mean to sound sceptical but it just smells like another one of Will Fiala's fake forum accounts.

I think it might be easier to address your points in dot point:

1. Pressure Holding Capacity and Fermenters
We sell fermenters that hold no pressure at all and also fermenters that hold 3.5 bar. So there is no benefit for me to "shit on" fermenters that do not hold pressure or say that fermenters that hold higher pressures than 2 bar are no good. That is like me shitting on 2/3 of the fermenters we sell. If you do think that pressure is pointless please tell us why, alternatively if you think you need a fermenter that holds more than 1.5bar then can you please explain what types of fermentation require this? Where is higher than 1.5bar beneficial to the fermentation process?

2. Conical Fermenters
We have done loads of research on the pitch of the conical base not to mention the fact that we have probably sold more conical fermenters than any other company in the world. Putting those aspects aside I would like to put this question out to our audience. Recently we released this new tri-clover based conical fermenter called the FermZilla TC . This fermenter has a smooth transition from the conical wall to the 3inch dump valve. In the video of this product we actually carried out a full fermentation in this vessel and even without cold crashing almost all the yeast dropped down into the collection container. Please have a look at the attached photo and you will notice that you can barely see any yeast at position A and a substantial amount of yeast collected into the container in position B in the collection container. With that said I would like to invite anyone else to post photos of the FermZilla TC to see if you have yeast sitting in the cone. If customers are having problems with this we would have heard about it or seen it especially given the fermenter is clear it would be obvious. After selling thousands of these we have never seen an issue with yeast not setting in a similar way to what you see in the photo attached and as a result we still believe that 90 degree cone is an optimum compromise between height saving and yeast collecting performance. As also said in the previous post if you do have no restrictions on height and dont mind a top heavy vessel then go for it and get a 60 degree cone.
- Furthermore. I will also offer you the opportunity for you to bring any fermenter you like to us and we will do a video comparison between the fermzilla TC and whatever fermenter you bring and then do a time laps and post the video on our youtube channel. So we are prepared to do even more testing if that it what it takes to make you happy.

3. Dump Valves
We have used many fermenters with various dump valve sizes and we consistently have issues with dump valves of under 2inch. If the 2inch was excessive then why wouldn't customers simply save money and put smaller dump valves onto fermenters. Perhaps you should mention this idea to Spike brewing, SS BrewTech, BrewBuilt, Brewtools and others and suggest they use smaller dump valves too. If however you would like to bring in your fermenter with smaller than 2inch dump valve we would be happy to test it out and see how it compares and once again do a video review of this comparison. Alternatively if you have a particular model that you would like us to purchase and test just let us know and we will test and release the results.

4. Sledging
I had a read through the previous post and was not able to see anything that constitutes sledging neither did I mention Keg King and do not care what Keg King do. KegLand sells more than 4 times more product than Keg King for a reason. If however I have somehow offended you or any other business that you represent then I can only say I am sorry and that this was not my intention.
 

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Ballaratguy

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Thanks for that CraftMan. I am all ears and welcome other opinions but I struggle to work out where this negativity comes from. I dont mean to sound sceptical but it just smells like another one of Will Fiala's fake forum accounts.

I think it might be easier to address your points in dot point:

1. Pressure Holding Capacity and Fermenters
We sell fermenters that hold no pressure at all and also fermenters that hold 3.5 bar. So there is no benefit for me to "shit on" fermenters that do not hold pressure or say that fermenters that hold higher pressures than 2 bar are no good. That is like me shitting on 2/3 of the fermenters we sell. If you do think that pressure is pointless please tell us why, alternatively if you think you need a fermenter that holds more than 1.5bar then can you please explain what types of fermentation require this? Where is higher than 1.5bar beneficial to the fermentation process?

2. Conical Fermenters
We have done loads of research on the pitch of the conical base not to mention the fact that we have probably sold more conical fermenters than any other company in the world. Putting those aspects aside I would like to put this question out to our audience. Recently we released this new tri-clover based conical fermenter called the FermZilla TC . This fermenter has a smooth transition from the conical wall to the 3inch dump valve. In the video of this product we actually carried out a full fermentation in this vessel and even without cold crashing almost all the yeast dropped down into the collection container. Please have a look at the attached photo and you will notice that you can barely see any yeast at position A and a substantial amount of yeast collected into the container in position B in the collection container. With that said I would like to invite anyone else to post photos of the FermZilla TC to see if you have yeast sitting in the cone. If customers are having problems with this we would have heard about it or seen it especially given the fermenter is clear it would be obvious. After selling thousands of these we have never seen an issue with yeast not setting in a similar way to what you see in the photo attached and as a result we still believe that 90 degree cone is an optimum compromise between height saving and yeast collecting performance. As also said in the previous post if you do have no restrictions on height and dont mind a top heavy vessel then go for it and get a 60 degree cone.
- Furthermore. I will also offer you the opportunity for you to bring any fermenter you like to us and we will do a video comparison between the fermzilla TC and whatever fermenter you bring and then do a time laps and post the video on our youtube channel. So we are prepared to do even more testing if that it what it takes to make you happy.

3. Dump Valves
We have used many fermenters with various dump valve sizes and we consistently have issues with dump valves of under 2inch. If the 2inch was excessive then why wouldn't customers simply save money and put smaller dump valves onto fermenters. Perhaps you should mention this idea to Spike brewing, SS BrewTech, BrewBuilt, Brewtools and others and suggest they use smaller dump valves too. If however you would like to bring in your fermenter with smaller than 2inch dump valve we would be happy to test it out and see how it compares and once again do a video review of this comparison. Alternatively if you have a particular model that you would like us to purchase and test just let us know and we will test and release the results.

4. Sledging
I had a read through the previous post and was not able to see anything that constitutes sledging neither did I mention Keg King and do not care what Keg King do. KegLand sells more than 4 times more product than Keg King for a reason. If however I have somehow offended you or any other business that you represent then I can only say I am sorry and that this was not my intention.
Years ago I was involved in commission only selling
Our sales manager always told us to not shit can the competitors product
If you do you will always loose any creditability that you have worked hard to get!
 

wide eyed and legless

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4. Sledging
I had a read through the previous post and was not able to see anything that constitutes sledging neither did I mention Keg King and do not care what Keg King do. KegLand sells more than 4 times more product than Keg King for a reason. If however I have somehow offended you or any other business that you represent then I can only say I am sorry and that this was not my intention.
You just can't help yourself. We are all supposed to presume now that you are privy to the sales figures of Keg King. It could be right that you sell 4 times more than Keg King, but does Keg King get get the returns you do? I doubt it. You stated you would bury Keg King in 3 months, that was 4 years ago, still trying to dig the hole I see.
Why don't you keep going your way, minding your own garden and don't take over a thread started by a member of AHB. You have your own thread to spruik your wares, stick to it.

By the way fake forum accounts you must hold the record, if you want to be incognito get your fake accounts to post on other members posts not just Keg Land Q & A.

One more thing.
1656143054371.png
 

golfandbrew

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I agree with the one of the above posts that the more expensive units do seem a bit over engineered.

If you look at commercial unitanks they seem quite a bit simpler than some of the higher end homebrew versions. Maybe it's just the compact size that makes them look over engineered?

Been wanting an SS unitank for awhile and I think I have narrowed down what I am wanting and what is "best" for me.

1. Affordable, not cheap necessarily, but good value for money.
2. CIP capable, including ability to pasteurize.
3. Working pressure of 15 PSI. Maybe 20 for good measure.
4. Sample port
5. Ability to read interior temp.
6. Dump valve
7. Easy to breakdown and clean individual parts.
8. Easy access for dry hopping.
9. Easy racking to keg.

Would be interesting to hear what users of Ss Brewtechs, Brew Tools, etc like/dislike and use/don't use on their tanks.

Doubt I'll ever take the plunge but it's nice to dream.
 

hopnotic

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20220514_120146.jpg

I have a brewtools F80 and minichilly glycol cooler. It wasn't cheap but it ticks every box and it's for life.
The glycol system will cold crash 50L of ale in just over an hour. Clean up is easy with CIP. Superb kit.
 

Half-baked

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Golfandbrew, that’s a pretty good list. I would add to it (for those of us using glycol chillers) that a chilling coil that attaches through the lid is preferable to the ones attached to the body. This is for ease of cleaning, plus there are fewer threaded parts to harbour microbes.

For me, the Cheeky Peak nano ones are the pick at the moment, based on price and features (they address all of golfandbrew’s criteria). But while they seem to go overboard on the tri clove ports, for some reason the thermowell is threaded.

Also, I’m interested in what KL was saying about dry hopping through 1.5” ports. It accords with what I’ve read elsewhere. And I’m comfortable that KL would have done the testing to form their design, rather than designing first and then trying to retrospectively make up their rationale…
 

CraftMan

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Thanks for that CraftMan. I am all ears and welcome other opinions but I struggle to work out where this negativity comes from. I dont mean to sound sceptical but it just smells like another one of Will Fiala's fake forum accounts.
1. Stop pretending to struggle to understand where the negativity comes from, you know better than this. I am also on the Kegland facebook group and I can tell you, you guys shit on every Keg King product.
2. Fake forum accounts?

I think it might be easier to address your points in dot point:

1. Pressure Holding Capacity and Fermenters
We sell fermenters that hold no pressure at all and also fermenters that hold 3.5 bar. So there is no benefit for me to "shit on" fermenters that do not hold pressure or say that fermenters that hold higher pressures than 2 bar are no good. That is like me shitting on 2/3 of the fermenters we sell. If you do think that pressure is pointless please tell us why, alternatively if you think you need a fermenter that holds more than 1.5bar then can you please explain what types of fermentation require this? Where is higher than 1.5bar beneficial to the fermentation process?

That's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that you are downplaying the importance of 15psi fermentation in anticipation of your stainless steel fermenter coming out later this year that will be thinner, as per the discussion on David Heath's facebook group when both David Heath and Oli, who were both shitting on the very same product the Keg King Apollo Titan you were shitting on earlier, described it as being thinner and not being able to withstand much pressure.

2. Conical Fermenters
We have done loads of research on the pitch of the conical base not to mention the fact that we have probably sold more conical fermenters than any other company in the world. Putting those aspects aside I would like to put this question out to our audience. Recently we released this new tri-clover based conical fermenter called the FermZilla TC . This fermenter has a smooth transition from the conical wall to the 3inch dump valve. In the video of this product we actually carried out a full fermentation in this vessel and even without cold crashing almost all the yeast dropped down into the collection container. Please have a look at the attached photo and you will notice that you can barely see any yeast at position A and a substantial amount of yeast collected into the container in position B in the collection container. With that said I would like to invite anyone else to post photos of the FermZilla TC to see if you have yeast sitting in the cone. If customers are having problems with this we would have heard about it or seen it especially given the fermenter is clear it would be obvious. After selling thousands of these we have never seen an issue with yeast not setting in a similar way to what you see in the photo attached and as a result we still believe that 90 degree cone is an optimum compromise between height saving and yeast collecting performance. As also said in the previous post if you do have no restrictions on height and dont mind a top heavy vessel then go for it and get a 60 degree cone.
- Furthermore. I will also offer you the opportunity for you to bring any fermenter you like to us and we will do a video comparison between the fermzilla TC and whatever fermenter you bring and then do a time laps and post the video on our youtube channel. So we are prepared to do even more testing if that it what it takes to make you happy.

That's a lot of words just to say that you are aware it's not really conical but you went with it anyway. That's not a conical fermenter, that's a bowl.

1656309908951.png


3. Dump Valves
We have used many fermenters with various dump valve sizes and we consistently have issues with dump valves of under 2inch. If the 2inch was excessive then why wouldn't customers simply save money and put smaller dump valves onto fermenters. Perhaps you should mention this idea to Spike brewing, SS BrewTech, BrewBuilt, Brewtools and others and suggest they use smaller dump valves too. If however you would like to bring in your fermenter with smaller than 2inch dump valve we would be happy to test it out and see how it compares and once again do a video review of this comparison. Alternatively if you have a particular model that you would like us to purchase and test just let us know and we will test and release the results.
No one is saying that 2in is excessive. You really like to twist words eh? You seem to love doing that.
I guess Blichmann Engineering, some of the best (if not the best) and most advanced homebrew engineers ever, must be completely wrong then with their 1.5in sanitary dump valve into their... 1.5in collection bottle.

1656310053911.png 1656310123327.png


4. Sledging
I had a read through the previous post and was not able to see anything that constitutes sledging neither did I mention Keg King and do not care what Keg King do. KegLand sells more than 4 times more product than Keg King for a reason.

How do you know Keg King's sales figures? What do you need to compensate for that you have to keep talking down about others? It makes you look desperate and little

If however I have somehow offended you or any other business that you represent then I can only say I am sorry and that this was not my intention.

.................
 

golfandbrew

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I only brew 19litre batches and my fridge is pretty tall so should fit most of the models on the market. If I ever buy one I will have to measure it all out to make sure first though. This is why I didn't include anything about a chilling coil or jacket in my list. I'll have to take another look at the Nano X but the quick look I did have it seemed like you really had to buy a lot of extras to get fully functional unitank. If the threaded parts are for a thermowell or glycol ports I wouldn't be too concerned about it as I assume neither of these threads are actually exposed to beer.
 

mynameisrodney

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1. Stop pretending to struggle to understand where the negativity comes from, you know better than this. I am also on the Kegland facebook group and I can tell you, you guys shit on every Keg King product.
2. Fake forum accounts?



That's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that you are downplaying the importance of 15psi fermentation in anticipation of your stainless steel fermenter coming out later this year that will be thinner, as per the discussion on David Heath's facebook group when both David Heath and Oli, who were both shitting on the very same product the Keg King Apollo Titan you were shitting on earlier, described it as being thinner and not being able to withstand much pressure.



That's a lot of words just to say that you are aware it's not really conical but you went with it anyway. That's not a conical fermenter, that's a bowl.

View attachment 122324


No one is saying that 2in is excessive. You really like to twist words eh? You seem to love doing that.
I guess Blichmann Engineering, some of the best (if not the best) and most advanced homebrew engineers ever, must be completely wrong then with their 1.5in sanitary dump valve into their... 1.5in collection bottle.

View attachment 122325 View attachment 122326




How do you know Keg King's sales figures? What do you need to compensate for that you have to keep talking down about others? It makes you look desperate and little



.................

Honestly, why join the forums just to stir more shit. There is enough here already. The KL replay was not shitting on any product. It was generic points. If you want to read into more than that, that is your problem. Most of us here have had enough of this garbage.
 

badbreath

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there is some real crazy subtext going on in this thread - not sure if its relevent to the OP's question
 

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