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Best Belgian Candy With Dap Or Invert ?

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jimi

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Different brewers make belgian candy in different ways (who would have thunk it :p ). Some heat the sugar with DAP (diammonium phosphate) others just do an invert with some citric acid. I was wondering if anyone had tried both and whether they had a preference for one over the other?
 

MHB

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You would be making two totally different products (neither is Belgian Candi).
With some acid to speed up the process you are first making some (maybe 1/3 of your sugar) into Invert (Glucose-Fructose > Glucose-H2O & Fructose -H2O) where the sucrose has been pulled apart and a water molecule put in where the join was, if you keep heating you will as the water gets ejected start to get random clumping of Glucose and Fructose communally called Caramel.
When you heat with DAP as the sucrose inverts the ammonium (NH4) subs in where the water would have gone this is called Milliards Reaction and is the same one that makes toast brown, and malt or wort darken as its heated. DAP brings its own acid to the party (effectively) and the darkening will happen very quickly and much cooler than will Caramelisation the process can get out of hand pretty dam quick, go very easy on the DAP.
The end result of either process will taste different to each other and to Belgian Candi, personally if I was doing all the work and making the investment required for a good Belgian I would lash out and buy the real thing It tastes a shed load better.
Mark
 

dr K

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Y personally if I was doing all the work and making the investment required for a good Belgian I would lash out and buy the real thing It tastes a shed load better.
Mark
Me too.
It is commonly available and not expensive, gone are the days when we had to make do.

K
 

jimi

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You would be making two totally different products (neither is Belgian Candi).
With some acid to speed up the process you are first making some (maybe 1/3 of your sugar) into Invert (Glucose-Fructose > Glucose-H2O & Fructose -H2O) where the sucrose has been pulled apart and a water molecule put in where the join was, if you keep heating you will as the water gets ejected start to get random clumping of Glucose and Fructose communally called Caramel.
When you heat with DAP as the sucrose inverts the ammonium (NH4) subs in where the water would have gone this is called Milliards Reaction and is the same one that makes toast brown, and malt or wort darken as its heated. DAP brings its own acid to the party (effectively) and the darkening will happen very quickly and much cooler than will Caramelisation the process can get out of hand pretty dam quick, go very easy on the DAP.
The end result of either process will taste different to each other and to Belgian Candi, personally if I was doing all the work and making the investment required for a good Belgian I would lash out and buy the real thing It tastes a shed load better.
Mark
There's plenty of online examples of people doing versions of belgian candi / syrup / sugar.
This link is to some designs by Randy Mosher and the good Graham Sanders http://www.franklinbrew.org/wp/?page_id=391

I've never had the inside info to know what has composed the belgians I've tried, hence my question.

MHB - have you tried these methods and found them to be substandard or are you off the 'don't risk it' mind set?
 

MHB

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I have tried all three products, I dont think I even implied that I thought one was qualitatively better than the other, except in so far as the Belgian Candi Syrup suits Belgian beer better than does a substitute.
I feel the same way about the malt and yeast to; when I make a Bohemian Pilsner I use Bohemian Malt, Hops and Yeast, when I make a Belgian the same applies, even to the sugar!
The three products simply are not the same; admittedly I do resent people calling it Belgian Candi when it clearly isnt as I believe it leads to false expectations as to how the beer is going to taste.
I understand the temptation to try a substitute; but having tried homemade and commercial syrups (clear invert, golden syrup and treacle) can honestly say that in my experience the Belgian Candi tastes better.
Mark

Oh
I would suggest that you be very careful when using DAP to make Sugar Syrups, just a touch too much or too hot can lead to some very acrid and unpleasant flavours, and dont breathe the fumes. I used a bit too much DAP once (just once) and it was very unpleasant, do more than make your eyes water.
M
 

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