Berlinner weisse. A cube full of spew?

[mje1980]

Ok, so I tried to brew my first berlinner.

Mashed as normal, the left the BIAB bag in the kettle, and the next morning i pitched wyeast lacto 5335. I put the heatbelt on, as it normally keeps my fermentors at 30-32. But, maybe being a ss keggle, after 2 days I checked and it was only 26 . Turned the gas on and got it to 35, then put foam around the outside. After another 24hrs ( this morning ) I removed the bag and boiled for 30mins ( I'm away from tomorrow so wanted/needed to get it done ) with some hops.

Well, the boil freaking stank pretty bad, kind of a mix of pongy sock and spew ( mm yum ). Thankfully the wife and kids had eaten breakfast ( garage internal door comes into the kitchen ).

Wasn't sure if it was normal or what, so I just cubed it and am now airing the garage and boiling some water and sodium perc in the keggle before I go to bed for night shift.


Any thoughts ?.

 

[dent]

My understanding is you have you keep it warm enough to make the spew-generating bacteria unhappy (35-45 degrees? don't quite remember), but the lacto will still crank away at that temp. Pitching lacto into grain seems a bit redundant to me too.

 

[mje1980]

Yeah, I thought by pitching the wyeast lacto I'd avoid other bugs that'd be in the grain, so i got the wort to 85 before dropping. After I wondered why I couldn't just pull the bag and just ferment the wort itself, seeing as I'd pasteurised it.

Been doing some Google fu and it seems that pitching brett may ( in time of course ) help clean it up. It's been boiled now and cubed. Next week I might hit it with some dry yeast, and if it's too rank I'll either ditch it, or pitch brett. I think I've got more funky fermentors than normal ones now, so another won't hurt I guess.

Next time I'll just run off into a plastic fermentor, leave overnight then pitch the lacto. With a heatbelt on my plastic fermentors in my ferm fridge I can comfortably hold 35c steadily. Then pitch sacch after a few days.

 

[mje1980]

I just had a thought. I may use the cube as a fermentor. I have a siphon so transfer wouldn't be an issue. I've also got the American farmhouse funky strain, wlp 670 so I might just build that up and pitch it. Might not technically be a berlinner weisse but hey, I could leave it for 6 months and see what happens.

In the meantime I could brew a saison, then just do a big starter so I can pitch it into both. I'd at least get one decent beer haha

 

[vykuza]

oh mje! You gotta power through the spew! Gotta let the lacto take control next time!

 

[mje1980]

I think I'll dump it and try again. Once I added some foam insulation the temp was pretty good, 2deg drop overnight, but it had been at 26 for 48hrs so I think clostridium had gone to town on the wort by then.

I'll try again definitely though.



Was pretty funny, my youngest was holding her nose haha. Had to burn some incense to mask the smell. It was as if someone had eaten a block of Parmesan, and then spewed it up !

 

[shmang]

This might be worth

Its a presentation by [SIZE=12.8000001907349px]Jess Caudill of Wyeast Laboratories during American National Homebrewers Conference 2012 on brewing (mainly covers [/SIZE]fermentation[SIZE=12.8000001907349px]) of Berlinner weisse.[/SIZE]

 

[hijukal]

This might be worth

Interesting presentation, thanks for linking.

I'm planning on trying this method next month, as I have a couple of days off and will be able to babysit it.

 

[mje1980]

Cheers guys, haven't got around to checking out the links, but I'm going to try again on sat so I'll have a look before then.

I think ill just go with using a fermentor and heat belt in my ferm fridge. I know I can keep it at 35 in there with no problems. I'm pretty sure the lower temp was to blame. I'll boil for 10mins, then drain into the fermentor, and place into the fridge, pitch lacto first, then ale yeast. Bottle into champagne bottles with high carb

I'm dumping this batch, cube and all haha.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I got the 'spew' effect in the fermenter. It was there a little when the beer was young, but settled down.

It did poorly in the TSHBC - but I reckon with another month (which is when I started on it), it would have been another story. It grows on you a bit.

 

[vykuza]

PM me your address mje and I'll post you a couple of bottles of my latest BW - spew and all!

 

[Not For Horses]

That spew smell is butyric acid. most brett strains will eat that and turn it into ethyl butyrate which is fruity and pear like.
Don't dump it yet, chuck some brett in and see what happens!

 

[mje1980]

I read that about Brett, as a way of saving it but jeez, I've got 3 funky fermenters already, 4 when I brew this next weisse. And honestly, the stench is vomit inducing

 

[Beersuit]

I had a cube of a sour wort swell after sitting on my shed floor for 3 weeks 5 months ago. Pitched it with wy lambic blend anyway and smelt like vomit for the first 3 months. It is starting to get better now and is hardly noticable. I would say let it ride mate. I'm hoping the Brett will turn mine into something special in a year or so. Never know if gets tipped.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Good advice.

Everything I've read says that BW get better with time (must be the initials because barleywines are the same). If the cube is a 'sour' cube, it won't make an ounce of difference to the cube if you let it hang on a bit.

 

[Beersuit]

Your so right LRG.
Cubes and fermenters are cheap compared to the time taken and ingredients to brew a beer. If it takes a year it's a year your without that kit anyway.

 

[Kai]

I've done a lot of sour mashes in the last year or two. Yes, a bit of time (and brett) may well clean it up, but if you want a fast turnaround sour then it can be done without the pongy bits.

I mash and lauter as normal (i.e. don't sour on the grain). Pitch a lacto culture and hold a warm temperature as you've done, or I've also found a handful or raw wheat works well too. Or acidulated malt. Or an Inner Health Plus capsule or two. They all behave slightly differently, but they've all worked for me in past. You should get a day or two in with a pH drop to 3.6 - 3.9 and a clean sour aroma not dissimilar to lemon curd. You may get some corn and tomato soup DMS characters, but they fade. A 30' boil tends to drive off any residual DMS

In a Berliner Weisse style low-gravity high-wheat wort, this works really well and a quick clean ferment can produce a crackingly good sour that's best drunk within a few weeks...

 

[hefevice]

[snip]
I mash and lauter as normal (i.e. don't sour on the grain). Pitch a lacto culture and hold a warm temperature as you've done, or I've also found a handful or raw wheat works well too. Or acidulated malt. Or an Inner Health Plus capsule or two. They all behave slightly differently, but they've all worked for me in past. You should get a day or two in with a pH drop to 3.6 - 3.9 and a clean sour aroma not dissimilar to lemon curd. You may get some corn and tomato soup DMS characters, but they fade. A 30' boil tends to drive off any residual DMS
[snip]

During the lactic ferment, do you take measures to exclude oxygen?

I was thinking of doing the lactic fermentation and pasteurisation (add hops, heat to 100C) in my HLT (has an electric element) before cooling, transferring to a fermenter and pitching yeast. However using this method it would be difficult to keep oxygen out of the HLT. Do you anticipate any problems?

 

[mje1980]

Ok 2nd attempt coming up. My plan is as follows


1.) pitch lacto and wort into fermentor

2.) after 24-48 hrs add German ale yeast ( 1007 ) starter.

3.) leave til gravity is done.

4.) leave it for a week then bottle half into champagne bottles with lots a sugaz, and the other half I'm going to add to one of my smaller funky fermentors with some brett c and leave for a few months, then bottle into champagne bottles.

Probably be the end of summer before they're ready, but it looks as though, as with all funky beers, the longer they sit the better.

 

[mje1980]

German ale pitched the other day do should be done soon. Going to take a reading tonight. And a taste