Belgium Pale

[wedge]

Can anyone explain how this is different from australia/english pale ale malt? Flavour wise. (Apart from the obvious ie. One comes from Belgium and one comes from England )

 

[wessmith]

Wedge, the differences are more subtle than might be expected. Firstly, English "Pale Ale malt" differs from the likes of the best floor malted "Best Bitter" styles of ale malt which are considered a premium malt and are priced accordingly. Pale Ale malts are produced in modern malting plants with typically a 4 day germination cycle. Floor malted malt is germinated over a longer period of 7 to 10 days and it is this part of the process that defines their intensely malty flavour and aroma. With high body and full malt flavour they are a cut above the standard English pale ales. Thomas Fawcett floor malted Maris Otter and Golden Promies are a couple of examples.

Belgian pale ales are very similar to the standard English pale ale malts with medium body and malt profiles. When we developed the Traditional Ale Malt with Joe White we used a Belgian pale as the benchmark - actually it was Dingemanns pale malt at 7.0 EBC colour. And we reckon we got it pretty right.

If you want more malt profile you can add a small amount of Munich malt - say 2 to 3%. Or you can wait for our new Vienna style - Windouree Gold (Nmaed after the Joe White Windouree plant in Ballaratt)

 

[wedge]

Thanks Wes that's great. So essential TF Pale is a quasi-belgium pale.


Cheers

 

[GMK]

On the subject of malts....

Can omeone tel me are the following malts:
Aromatic malt
Maloedin Malt

Can you substitute smoked malt for Aromatic.

Its a pity there is no table setup - as in with the hops - that tells you what they are and what they can be substituted with...

 

[wessmith]

Wedge, I guess I did not make the point clear enough. TF do not make a simple pale ale malt - they specialise in floor malted premium ale malts as I mentioned - Maris Otter, Golden Promise etc. A standard English pale from any of the major UK maltsters is pretty much the same as a Begian Ale malt. And we reckon our Joe White Traditional Ale malt (note there is no "pale" in the name) is very closew to the dingemans ale malt we used for the products development.

GMK, Aromatic malt originally came from Belgium and is a form of dark Melanoidin malt. You can also use a dark Munich. Melanoidin malt is, well Melanoidin malt. Below is a copy of a post I put up on the HBD last December on Melanoidin malts -

Stuart from Tasmania wants to try home malting Melaniodin malt. First question Stuart - have you already tried malting barley? Was it successful? Melanoidin is a difficult and process intensive malt to produce which is why so few maltsters outside of Germany offer the product. You will need to be very comfortable with your malting process to be able to get the necessary control to get the melanoidins to develop. Actually most malts have some melanoidins - these are the colour and flavour agents that give malts their individual characteristics. Melanoidin malt takes this flavour and colour development several stages further. Melanoidin malt still has some levels of active distase and will convert itself, albeit slowly. Colours vary considerably - the Hoepfner brand we stock is usually around 40 EBC (specs online at www.maltcraft.com), Gambrinus "Honey Malt" is 50 EBC and Weyermann is darker again at 70 to 80 EBC.

A bit of background info: Melanoidin malt or Brumalt as the Germans have traditionally called it, is like a "super Munich" - think "Munich on steroids" with pronounced malty aromas, flavours and a reddish colour. It is produced from a high protein "green malt" with a moisture content approaching 50% and is very well modified - ie the acrospire will need to be grown out to at least 100%. In the latter stages of germination, ventilation to the malting box is turned off allowing the buildup of CO2. This causes two things - (1) germination is terminated, and (2) the temperature of the malt rises. While the actual germination process is no longer occurring, the enzymes are still active producing a range of simple sugars and amino acids. These are the building blocks of the Maillard effect which will later produce the melanoidins in abundance.

The next stage is kilning off the still moist malt. Drying will be longer than for normal malt and some "stewing" of the grains will occur in the 60 to 65C range. Final curing will typically be in the mid 90C range although the darker colours will probably require 100 to 105C.

This is obviously a VERY simplistic overview of one of the more complex malting processes - however if you still want to proceed, contact me off line and I can give you some more detailed guidance. If you have access to "Technology Brewing & Malting" by Kunze, that would be a good start. While there isn't much detailed about Brumalt, he does give a lot of good information on Munich malt production. You could also try re-steeping munich to 40% moisture and let it "stew" off at 70C or so before re-kilning, however I doubt you would get much more melanoidin development.

Having recently researched this particular malt as part of our own product development program, I can tell you that there is very little written about the process, and what is available is mostly proprietary and/or under copyright. But if you know how to make a munich malt, you are already well on the way.

Wes.

 

[wedge]

Sorry wes, you did make yourself clear, i didn't express myself correctly I should of said JW

Cheers

 

[GMK]

Thanks Wes

Excellent stuff....
I have just picked up some Dark Wheat - 12.5kg
Dont know what to do with it yet - need a recipe for a dark wheat or a whebock....

Could i substitute Dark Wheat for Aromatic?

 

[wessmith]

Try this one -
Wobbly Boot Smoked Weizen

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

23-A Smoked Beer, Classic Rauchbier

Min OG: 1.050 Max OG: 1.064
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 30
Min Clr: 14 Max Clr: 32 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 55.00 Wort Size (L): 55.00
Total Grain (kg): 10.35
Anticipated OG: 1.051 Plato: 12.68
Anticipated EBC: 41.0
Anticipated IBU: 18.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 87 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 64.71 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.044 SG 10.85 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Extract EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
29.0 3.00 kg. JWM Pale Wheat Australia 1.015 4
29.0 3.00 kg. Hoepfner Wheat Dark Germany 1.015 15
29.0 3.00 kg. Hoepfner Smoked malt Germany 1.015 5
9.7 1.00 kg. TF Crystal Wheat UK 1.004 80
3.4 0.35 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special III Germany 1.002 1300

Exract represented as SG.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
25.00 g. Hallertauer Whole 10.20 13.8 60 min.
20.00 g. Pacific Hallertau Whole 6.00 3.3 30 min.
30.00 g. Pacific Hallertau Whole 6.00 1.6 5 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP300 Hefewizen Ale or for a milder version DCL K97


Water Profile
-------------

Profile:
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 0.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 0.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 0.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 0.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 0.0 ppm

pH: 0.00


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain kg: 10.35
Total Water Qts: 37.91 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water L: 35.88 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 18.28 C


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mash in 5 15 52 50 Infuse 56 35.88 3.47
Rest 1 15 40 65 63 Direct --- ------- ----
Step 2 10 30 70 68 Direct --- ------- ----
Mash out 10 10 78 76 Direct --- ------- ----


Total Water Qts: 37.91 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water L: 35.88 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume L: 42.78 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.
All infusion amounts are in Liters.
All infusion ratios are Liters/Kilograms.


Notes
-----

Use 1ltr (by vol) rice hulls in mash to improve lautering

Use of W68 yeast
(Whitelabs WLP300) essential to balance flavours

Wes.