Belgan Rasberry Beer

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Airgead

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Folks

After 12 years I have finally found a beer my wife will drink :D !

Unfortunately it is a Belgan Rasberry beer at $7 a bottle :( ...

To me it tasted like a slightly malty ale with a tiny amount of hop and a whole lot of rasberry. The label says 10% rasberry. The label also says matured in oak casks for 3 years but I suspect that may not be necessary.

It doesn't taste sour but the label says "Lambic aromatise, aux framboises". Anyone's French better than mine?

I am thinking a german ale (80% vienna malt with 20% wheat) with the minumum hop (maybe 5-10 IBU) and about 10% pureed rasberry.

Any helpful hints folks?

Cheers
Dave

P.S.. any spelling mistakes are caused by the bottle of very nice red wine I had with dinner (plus some pre-dinner beer)...
 

deadly

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I used 2x 300g packet of frozen raspberries at cooling then added another 300g pack in the 2ndry - got a pink to light red colour and you could smell it more than taste it (i liked it more beer flavour than berry but not fruity enuff for the boss)
 

nonicman

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I guess you are referring to Belle-Vue Framboise, rasberry lambic beer. A lovely beer (Red Oak in Sydney also brew a Framboise). I've been thinking of doing a Wit beer with rasberries added partly to the boil at 5 minutes (to try and counter the lack of flavour Deadly mentioned above, please correct if this is a waste) and the remainder in the secondary or towards the end of the primary. The tartness of the lambic seems to balance the sweetness of the fruit in the Belle-Vue Framboise (edit: was expecting a sweet fruity beer but was supprised by the balance and fresh rasberry flavour without the sweetness more balance and maybe a slight tartness.), so maybe a nice tart Wit could do the trick. The thought of brewing a Lambic is scarier than brewing a Brunswick Mum, but there have been a few posts in this forum on lambics so it can be done.
 

GMK

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one of the guys in the BBC has made one of these - used over 2kg of raspberries - 1kg in the last 3mins of boil - plus the next 1kg in th esecondary.
We compared it to Bellevue Framboise and his was better.

Hope this helps
 

dickTed

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Airgead.

When you're bottling, prime some of your stubbies with (boiled?) raspberry cordial, and see if she likes it.

She might be flattered by the idea that you've made a brew 'specially for her. You know what they're like.

Make sure she doesn't find that cordial bottle though.
 

nonicman

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GMK said:
one of the guys in the BBC has made one of these - used over 2kg of raspberries - 1kg in the last 3mins of boil - plus the next 1kg in th esecondary.
We compared it to Bellevue Framboise and his was better.

Hope this helps
[post="60020"][/post]​
GMK any more details? (BBC means British Broadcasting Corporation to me :unsure: )
 

deadly

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Yep if i was to do it again it would be at least 2kg to get the berry flavour,but wait till they are in season or get to know someone in resturants (half the price) Although the boss has taken to the chilli beer now the weather is cooler (habanero boiled)
 

nonicman

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And to think I spent most of child labour years picking rasberries and not making beer with them. 2 kg seems the go.

Edit: I don't eat jam after picking the fruit for jam, if the berries don't look presentable they go in the jam bin, plus the gollies and other extras :). Country boys adding flavour :)
 

Airgead

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Folks

Damn I love this forum. 8 replies overnight to a topic as obscure at this one...

I had a look at the lambic articles and I suspect that this is a wee bit out of my league just now (since i'm just setting up in all grain).

It looks like a belgan style wheat beer (40% wheat seems to be the usual amount for a lambic style the rest regular pale malt) with about 1kg rasberry in the boil and 1kg in the secondary seems to be the go. I am working on aiming for maybe 5 IBU of one of the German hops early in the boil so there is no flavour or aroma left in the finished beer *sigh*. I'll probably use the White Labs hefeweizen or the Belgan Wit. Possibly the wit as it is supposed to be a bit tarter which might match the lambic a bit better.

Since I wouldn't have the lambic tartness to balance the fruit, how would I go treating it like one of my fruit wines and adding some wine acid blend at the end to balance it out? Maybe upping the total acid to 6-7ppt tartaric?

Cheers
Dave
 

Darren

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Airgead said:
Folks

Damn I love this forum. 8 replies overnight to a topic as obscure at this one...

I had a look at the lambic articles and I suspect that this is a wee bit out of my league just now (since i'm just setting up in all grain).

NO not true. If you are just starting all-grain it won't be long before you make what you will call...."A belgian". Just part of the learning curve. I have a rule to drink all of what ever I make (good beer or bad beer). Certainly helps in not making the same mistake twice!

I am working on aiming for maybe 5 IBU of one of the German hops early in the boil so there is no flavour or aroma left in the finished beer *sigh*.

You probably want to aim for 15-20. 5 is certainly too low. This beer you are making will be at least 1 year before its best. The bitterness will mellow over that time period

I'll probably use the White Labs hefeweizen or the Belgan Wit. Possibly the wit as it is supposed to be a bit tarter which might match the lambic a bit better.

I agree. Go the wit for this style.

Since I wouldn't have the lambic tartness to balance the fruit, how would I go treating it like one of my fruit wines and adding some wine acid blend at the end to balance it out? Maybe upping the total acid to 6-7ppt tartaric?

You would probably want to taste trial that before bottling I suggest.


Cheers
Darren
Cheers
Dave
[post="60093"][/post]​
 

Airgead

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Darren said:
NO not true. If you are just starting all-grain it won't be long before you make what you will call...."A belgian". Just part of the learning curve. I have a rule to drink all of what ever I make (good beer or bad beer). Certainly helps in not making the same mistake twice!
A good rule. I once forced myself to finish 20l of the vilest vegimite tasting stout. My last ever kit beer. After that one I switched to extract and specialty grain and developed my own recipies. i figured I couldn't do any worse...

You probably want to aim for 15-20. 5 is certainly too low. This beer you are making will be at least 1 year before its best. The bitterness will mellow over that time period
Bit of background here. Its not that my wife doesn't like hops... she hates them. She really does not like bitter drinks. Even bitter lemon is too bitter for her. Having said that you are right 5 is probably too low. 15-20 with some aging would probably be right but I would like something she can drink sooner (even if it isn't as good). I might aim for 10 in the first batch and do a second batch at 15-20 to age while she drinks the first. Break her in gently so to speak...

I agree. Go the wit for this style.
Done

Since I wouldn't have the lambic tartness to balance the fruit, how would I go treating it like one of my fruit wines and adding some wine acid blend at the end to balance it out? Maybe upping the total acid to 6-7ppt tartaric?

You would probably want to taste trial that before bottling I suggest.
I'll handle it like a fruit wine - taste, adjust the acid to what tastes right then to the titrations and work out how much to adjust the whole batch. I might adjust some and leave the rest as is. See which she prefers.

Cheers
Dave
 

barls

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i hope you dont mind me dredging this back up but how did you go dave
 

Airgead

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barls said:
i hope you dont mind me dredging this back up but how did you go dave
[post="116565"][/post]​
barls

Not too bad. I made up a little 5l extract batch to test the concept. 60% coopers light extract, 40% morgan's wheat extract. OG was around 1.045 from memory. Bittered to 15IBU with hallertau. Fermented with the white labs wit yest.

I added 100g rasberries in the last 2 mins of the boil, another 200g in the secondary and another 100g a wek after that to really get the flavour up. Next time I wouldn't bother with the 200g in the boil. They did nothing.

It came out pretty drinkable. Not really a Bele Vue but not bad at all. The missus voted it "not bad.. but still not quite right". The main problem was that it wasn't sour enough to make up for the lack of bitterness.

I'm currently planning another test batch (Ag this time) using 60% ale malt, 20% wheat malt and 20% unmalted wheat to increase the tartness. Again fermenting with the white labs wit. 15 IBU of hallertau again. I will use a single addition of 75g/l rasberries in the secondary (fortunately I get them cheap from a frozen berry wholesaler). I'll probably make this a 10l as I'm not sure my system will scale down to 5l.

I'll get this on in the next week or 2 (as soon as my scottish export clears the secondary).

If this still isn't quite right I'll try a sour mash with 10&% of the grains and see if that gets it sour enough. if not I may have to go the whole way and try a pseudo lambic...

Cheers
Dave
 

barls

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cheers mate keep us posted
 

Gout

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not sure if this helps as i havn't been reading all the above posts, I have however in my hand a rasp. ale i brew once a year. this year i did 60Lt, 30 with 1.5Kg of fruit, and 30 with ~2.75Kg of fruit. I add this (after i pressure cooked it to ensure it was bug free to the best i could) to the secondry, leave it a week and drink. I use a 50% wheat beer as my base before the fruit is added. The wheat adds to the sour flavour but the secondry fruit to me thins out of finish in the beer, adds a slight wine like alc flavour and its rather sour with the berrys in there.
My pref was the ~1kg per 20Lt beer method. The others have been very very berry (nice) but i wanted a subtle hint

20Lt was gone in a night when about 3 people over, all love it, only one pint of APA.

next weekend i was drank out of stock once the word got around it was its annual release :)

cheers
I use saaz to bitter only
and a clean ale yeast (us56)
 

Airgead

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barls said:
cheers mate keep us posted
[post="116642"][/post]​
OK.. Here's an update....

I put the beer on 3 weeks ago. Let it ferment out in the primary for a week and a half. I racked to a secondary and added the fruit last weekend and let it ferment on that until Sunday when I racked it off the fruit pulp into a second secondary (tertiary?) to clear.

We did a side by side tasting between this one and the Bele Vue. Even considering that this one was warm and flat (with lumps floating in it) its remarkably close. The aroma is almost spot on. Intense rasberry. The sourness/bitterness is probably as close as you can get without going for a sour mash or full on lambic. The main diference was colour and residual sweetness. Mine was an intense rasbery cordial red and quite dry (FG 1.007 from an OG of around 1.045) while the bele vue was brownish red and had a bit of residual sweetness. About the same rasberry flavour in both. Mine maybe a touch more. I may drop the rasberry to 60g/l next time and see how that goes.

I think next time I'll add maybe 2-3% of a light crystal like a cara helles to add the colour and some resudual sweetness. Aparrt from that I think its pretty spot on.

The missus pronounced it "very nice" and is quite looking forward to trying the finished product. I'll bottle this weekend and let it condition for a week or two. I'll report back then.

Cheers
Dave
 

andrewl

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I tried the Bellevue Frambois about 2 weekends ago... To my personal tastes i think that raspberry was just too intense, nut I would like to do a raspberry or cherry ale but only use a liitle fruit (more for aroma and a little flavour).
But still, glad to hear of the result Airgead :beerbang:

Cheers,
Andrew
 

Airgead

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andrewl said:
I tried the Bellevue Frambois about 2 weekends ago... To my personal tastes i think that raspberry was just too intense, nut I would like to do a raspberry or cherry ale but only use a liitle fruit (more for aroma and a little flavour).
But still, glad to hear of the result Airgead :beerbang:

Cheers,
Andrew
[post="122747"][/post]​
To be honest its way too much for my taste but the missus loves it. if I were doing it for me I'd cut it right back to about 20g/l to give just a suggestion of rasberry in the aroma and flavour plus a dash of colour. But, to misquote Frank'n'furter "I didn't make it for me!"

I did a sour cherry stout like that last winter which was pretty good. Black with a purple tint if you held it up to the light. A slight aroma and flavour of sour cherry that set off the roasted flavours of the stout very nicely. Excellent dessert beer that one.

Cheers
Dave
 

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