Beersmith Program Help

[SJW]

The question: With a all grain brew, when I add an amount to the "Loss to boil trub & Chiller" in the My Equipment part, how come the Estimated OG is not reduced? As I guess the Batch size is what I want in my fermenter (25 litres) and to get that I need about 28 litres in the kettle after the boil. But if I add 2 or 3 litres or even 20 litres to the "Loss to boil trub & Chiller" part, the Estmated OG is not changed. Maybe I am doing something wrong but the way I see it the Estimated OG must be reduced with the more lires in the "Loss to boil trub & Chiller" part. Even the "calculate total boil amount" is increased but the Estmated final OG is always the same.
Hope this makes sence, has anyone noticed this?

STEPHEN

 

[jgriffin]

Yep and i spoke to the developer about it. You are correct, it's not taken into account. If yuo look on the Beersmith forums, you can see my post.

What he has done in the new version is to introduce a better calculator - click on brewhouse efficiency in the recipe.

http://www.beersmith.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB...75568;start=0#0

 

[Jovial_Monk]

No. If you lose more you get fewer litres in the fermenter, but the OG of course stays the same!

Jovial Monk

 

[dicko]

Hi SJW,

Once the boil is completed and you have reached your starting gravity then it doesn't matter how much you lose to the system or waste for that matter, the gravity reading of the wort will remain the same.

Cheers

 

[jgriffin]

Sure the gravity doesn't change, but when you are originally formulating the recipe and trying to work out the grain bill and water to add, it makes a difference. If you want 23L and know that you lose 5 L, then you need to up your original volume by 5L and therefore increase the grain bill.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Yup, work recipe out on volume in kettle post-boil

JM

 

[jayse]

Sure the gravity doesn't change, but when you are originally formulating the recipe and trying to work out the grain bill and water to add, it makes a difference. If you want 23L and know that you lose 5 L, then you need to up your original volume by 5L and therefore increase the grain bill.

[post="53605"][/post]​

I think you don't really need to worry about exact losses as much as you are.
You really don't need to worry about losses at all just think 5 litres max should cover me, if I loose less than i just have a few extra litres. I always plan to end up with a few more litres than i need. All you need do there is design your recipe for the 28l, (i used 25l). losses are normally between 2-5l doesn't matter how much you loose if you have made 28l than what ever you get into the fermentor wether its only 17l or 25 litres it will either way be the same gravity and IBU as the whole 28l you ended the boil at.
Losses can change from brew to brew so don't worry too much just think batch size is end of boil size, the gravity, IBU and colour calcs are all for 28litres so it makes sense your really making 28litres of wort irrelavant of how much you loose. I just calculate to loss five litres I never loose that much
Think your brewing 28L of wort! NOT 23litre PLUS the extra grain and hops to cover for the losses. Its just straight up 28 litres of wort don't worry about anything else. Does that make sense at all?


Happy confusionless brewing!

Jayse

 

[jgriffin]

I understand totally what you are saying, but when you first start using beersmith, it can be confusing as to what brewhouse efficiency means. You also go to all this effort to measure your equipment losses etc, and in the end inputing some of those values does.... absolutely nothing.

 

[Gulf Brewery]

This is another "it depends" answer. I think what Jayse and jgriffin are saying (not real clearly tho), is if you measure in the kettle (give or take a litre or 2), your liquid measurements don't matter as long as you have hit your SG. If you do the measurement in the fermenter, then you need to enter all of your figures.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[SJW]

Thanks guys. I understand that it does not matter if i just forget the "Loss to boil trub & Chiller" and work to a final volume of 27 or 28 litres and that way the estimated OG should work out and i will get 25 litres in the fermenter, but what anoys me is the carbonation is worked out on what u say is your final volume, ie, 28 litres when really it should bet 25. Anyway thats no problem and It's easy to work arund it, I just wanted to confirm that there was a glitch in the program.
THANKS BOYS.

 

[SJW]

This was the reply i got from Brad (Mr Beersmith).

Stephen,

The issue is that the brewhouse efficiency is defined to represent all losses in the system including trub loss. This is consistent with the published literature and other programs, so I was reluctant to change it.



If I calculated OG based on all of the equipment settings plus the brewhouse efficiency, I could probably get a more accurate number (accounting for trub loss and such) but the problem is that this would be inconsistent with the published literature and common usage. Instead I would need to input the mash efficiency and not brewhouse efficiency to use as a basis for OG estimation.



This is a point of some confusion and I have thought of offering an anternative setting for those who prefer to start with mash efficiency and have the program calculate losses from there, but at the moment Ive decided to stick with common usage of brewhouse efficiency to represent all losses in the system.



Cheers!



Brad Smith

www.beersmith.com