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Crusty

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Tomorrow I am hooking up the kegerator & before I attack my beer lines, I am just making sure to what length I should be looking at. My beer temp will be at 4degC, I am aiming for 2.5vol/co2, 19lt of beer in the keg. I typed these figures into BrewMate & it tells me I would need to set my regulator at 81kpa & leave to carbonate. I am using 5mm ID Valpar Flexmaster tubing. Any tips appreciated.
Cheers
 

Cocko

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Sorry mate, not a direct answer but wouldn't the out let size of your taps offer restriction to flow thus be involved in the process too?

Only saying due to you having the grandest set of taps one could have. If flow control taps adjust your pour, than sure the flow rate of every different tap is in question too?

Anyway, probably so minute, not an issue but just thought it deserved a mention.

In answer; about 2-3m.

There is some math - Don Burke knows, hopefully his is around....

:blink: :icon_drunk:
 

Phoney

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Start with at least 2 - 2.5 meters. You can always cut down from thete if necessary but this line works for most setups.

There's an old spreadsheet calculator floating around on this forum somewhere but i found it useless as tits on a bull.... I plugged in my figures and it calculated 0.8 meter line lengths! Wtf.
 

Crusty

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Sorry mate, not a direct answer but wouldn't the out let size of your taps offer restriction to flow thus be involved in the process too?

Only saying due to you having the grandest set of taps one could have. If flow control taps adjust your pour, than sure the flow rate of every different tap is in question too?

Anyway, probably so minute, not an issue but just thought it deserved a mention.

In answer; about 2-3m.

There is some math - Don Burke knows, hopefully his is around....

:blink: :icon_drunk:

Start with at least 2 - 2.5 meters. You can always cut down from thete if necessary but this line works for most setups.

There's an old spreadsheet calculator floating around on this forum somewhere but i found it useless as tits on a bull.... I plugged in my figures and it calculated 0.8 meter line lengths! Wtf.

Cheers guys.
I might just cut them at 3m & work back from there.
 

donburke

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Cheers guys.
I might just cut them at 3m & work back from there.

not a great lot of help as my font sits about 3m above the kegs, so these lines are a total of 5m

but for the 2 taps that exit directly from the chesty, the line was from memory somewhere between 3m and 3.5m

it pours well at 70kpa, so at your 80kpa i imagine it will pour slightly faster, so i'd probably start at 3.5m to 4m and see if thats good, and you can easily chop half a metre off each line
 

Crusty

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I typed my figures into the spread sheet & it tells me I need 1.17m of line, WTF!!
Tops of the kegs are approx 30cm from the taps, 0.3m, beer temp is 4degC, 81.8kpa for 2.5vol/co2, 3/16th" beer line.


not a great lot of help as my font sits about 3m above the kegs, so these lines are a total of 5m

but for the 2 taps that exit directly from the chesty, the line was from memory somewhere between 3m and 3.5m

it pours well at 70kpa, so at your 80kpa i imagine it will pour slightly faster, so i'd probably start at 3.5m to 4m and see if thats good, and you can easily chop half a metre off each line
Thanks DB.
Might just be safe to start at 4m & cut back from there.
Cheers
 

mxd

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if you search for co2_and_keg_balancing_v1.2.xls you'll find the latest version

when I put your numbers in I got the following

I would try 1 at 2.5 and see how it goes before yo chop lots of expensive line up.

Step
1 What is your desired serving temperature in whole or half degrees C between 0 & 15.5? 4 degrees C
2 What is your desired carbonation level (volume of CO2)? (refer to charts on next tab) 2.5 L CO2 / L beer
3 How high is your tap above the centre of the keg? 0.3 metres
4 What size beer line are you using? 5mm I.D. plastic beer line select from list In psi In bar
Required regulator setting for desired volume of CO2 @ desired serving temperature 81.8 Kpa 11.9 0.8


5 Calculated line length (standard pressure output ie 6.89KPa) 2.17 metres
Calculated line length (higher pressure output ie 13.78 KPa) 1.96 metres
 

Snow

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Tomorrow I am hooking up the kegerator & before I attack my beer lines, I am just making sure to what length I should be looking at. My beer temp will be at 4degC, I am aiming for 2.5vol/co2, 19lt of beer in the keg. I typed these figures into BrewMate & it tells me I would need to set my regulator at 81kpa & leave to carbonate. I am using 5mm ID Valpar Flexmaster tubing. Any tips appreciated.
Cheers
Crusty, my first instinct is to say that waiting for your beer to carbonate at 81kpa would be a waste of drinking time!. Just crank it up to 300kpa, leave it for 24 hours, then bleed it to 80kpa to serve. Perfect carbonation every time.

As for beer line length, I keep my kegs at 3C and serve and store at 80kpa, with the beer line length at around 1.5-2m depending on the location of the tap. Perfect carbonation and perfect pour. The only time i might have an issue is if I raise the caronation on a weizen, then I might back the serving pressure off a bit to reduce over foaming.

Cheers - Snow.
 

donburke

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Sorry mate, not a direct answer but wouldn't the out let size of your taps offer restriction to flow thus be involved in the process too?

Only saying due to you having the grandest set of taps one could have. If flow control taps adjust your pour, than sure the flow rate of every different tap is in question too?

Anyway, probably so minute, not an issue but just thought it deserved a mention.

In answer; about 2-3m.

There is some math - Don Burke knows, hopefully his is around....

:blink: :icon_drunk:

for sure the type of tap will affect the pour, so too will how smooth the line is, and how well machined the internal parts of the tap are

i can only comment on my experience with brumby taps and floryte taps, and what i found was that the floryte offered less resistance

to give you an idea, my taps are approx 3m above the kegs centres, as the chesty is in the man cave below, 5mm id line, 70kpa @ 2 degrees gives 2.5 volumes, and it all works well, with a decent pour (havent timed it but i guess 5 or 6 seconds for 330ml glass)
 

Crusty

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Crusty, my first instinct is to say that waiting for your beer to carbonate at 81kpa would be a waste of drinking time!. Just crank it up to 300kpa, leave it for 24 hours, then bleed it to 80kpa to serve. Perfect carbonation every time.

As for beer line length, I keep my kegs at 3C and serve and store at 80kpa, with the beer line length at around 1.5-2m depending on the location of the tap. Perfect carbonation and perfect pour. The only time i might have an issue is if I raise the caronation on a weizen, then I might back the serving pressure off a bit to reduce over foaming.

Cheers - Snow.
I've done that in the past & I really think the beer is better after the two week mark in the keg so the week or so wait is no drama for me. I found it easier just to carbonate at serving pressure & it makes it a bit easier adding new kegs & not having to juggle around with who gets the 300kpa & who gets serving pressure with one line going into the 4 way manifold. I just found an average carbonation level for my beer temp & set the regulator according to that. I had a few dramas with co2 escaping the lines in the past & worked out my lines were a bit short for my serving & carbing pressure. Trying to do it better this time round. What taps are you using & is your set up a chesty or fridge?
 

.DJ.

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buy flow control Celli's...

Line length? WHO CARES! :)
 

Crusty

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buy flow control Celli's...

Line length? WHO CARES! :)
A bit late as I have the Flortye taps. I was looking at the celli's but didn't really want the chesty, too low for me. I preferred the fridge set up & the Celli's don't pour as good with the shank adapters I've been told, still great just not as good as no extension. I preferred the commercial Floryte taps as hopefully one day I will get a flooded glycol font & these taps will suit that as well.
I cut a 3m length to see how it pours. A bit quick @80kpa & pretty good @70kpa but this is room temperature water. Once @4deg, I think the 80kpa will be pretty close.

Thanks mxd for the updated chart, excellent.
 

Crusty

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for sure the type of tap will affect the pour, so too will how smooth the line is, and how well machined the internal parts of the tap are

i can only comment on my experience with brumby taps and floryte taps, and what i found was that the floryte offered less resistance

to give you an idea, my taps are approx 3m above the kegs centres, as the chesty is in the man cave below, 5mm id line, 70kpa @ 2 degrees gives 2.5 volumes, and it all works well, with a decent pour (havent timed it but i guess 5 or 6 seconds for 330ml glass)
I agree with the less resistance with the Floryte's. They certainly offer less resistance at the tap. I am starting to think 3.5m would of been better so I might chuck on 3.5m & see how that goes.
 

Cocko

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Have you thought about an in-line or adapter restrictors mate?

I think the florytes look awesome and I have poured on them before, they feel more solid than any other tap.. by far.

BUT, I have gone the perlick flow control taps and they have changed my view of the carbonation world vs pouring/line length etc, flow control = sorted.

3c.
 

Crusty

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Have you thought about an in-line or adapter restrictors mate?

I think the florytes look awesome and I have poured on them before, they feel more solid than any other tap.. by far.

BUT, I have gone the perlick flow control taps and they have changed my view of the carbonation world vs pouring/line length etc, flow control = sorted.

3c.
Never even thought about it. Where can you get them from.
 

Cocko

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Never even thought about it. Where can you get them from.
Never used any of these in particular so can't comment on function, hopefully others will;

Ross sells these: http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4253

And these, tho look and seem cheap and nasty: http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1002

I am sure there are other ways to do it, I have seen others on the market, just can not find them atm, sorry!

Anyway, just another angle.

note, flow control has changed my kegging experience 10 fold.

Cheers!
 

Snow

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I've done that in the past & I really think the beer is better after the two week mark in the keg so the week or so wait is no drama for me. I found it easier just to carbonate at serving pressure & it makes it a bit easier adding new kegs & not having to juggle around with who gets the 300kpa & who gets serving pressure with one line going into the 4 way manifold. I just found an average carbonation level for my beer temp & set the regulator according to that. I had a few dramas with co2 escaping the lines in the past & worked out my lines were a bit short for my serving & carbing pressure. Trying to do it better this time round. What taps are you using & is your set up a chesty or fridge?
Andale Florytes with a chesty.
 

SJW

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Way not just use a small s/s ball valve with a barb either end in between the keg and tap?
 

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