Ascorbic acid & citric acid in pear juice cans?

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wareemba

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these two things are in the Goulburn Valley Pear juice cans.

two weeks ago - i added 3L of my normal apple juice (Cedar Creek from Harris Farm) with 850mL of Pear juice to a fermenter with 5g of EC1118 (that thad been in the fridge for 12 months).

so nothing happened, so i though the yeast was dodgy, so i added some Mangrove Jacks M02 yeast to see if that helped.

nup, it has still done not much and i have narrowed it down to potentially the two acid ingredients in the pear juice?

can i rescue the batch, or chuck it away and look for another pear juice source?
 

earle

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Is nothing happening based on hydrometer readings?
 

Danscraftbeer

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I have a Cider on tap atm. 8.7% of it is that Pear Juice. Yours is a higher percentage of the Pear juice but I'm not aware those acids make it non fermentable I don't think so. Did you add yeast minerals? Even if not it should still ferment.
 

Lyrebird_Cycles

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i have narrowed it down to potentially the two acid ingredients in the pear juice?
Your problem lies elsewhere.

Neither ascorbic nor citric is toxic to yeast at the levels that would be present in the juice.
 

MHB

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Pear juice a punishment diet (think bread and water) as far as yeast is concerned, really just sugar and water with next to nothing else, Apple juice is also pretty low on the other things yeast need (vitamins, minerals, proteins, lipids...)
But a good dry yeast still should make some progress, granted that a little yeast food would really help it finish the job quickly and give a cleaner ferment.
Make sure you use a yeast nutrient that isn't just DAP (Di-Ammonium Phosphate, looks crystalline like salt), plenty of good ones on the market, I use Wyeast Nutrient because that's what my supplier sells.
Remember that Cider wont krausen like beer, often looks dead flat, sometimes the surfaces shimmers with small bubbles bursting if it's an active ferment.
As earle said, you need to use an hydrometer, if the yeast was healthy there should be signs of fermentation, a year old EC-1118 will usually be OK, but if you got really unlucky and had two dead yeasts in a row, given that nothing else has taken up residence a third might do the trick - but check the SG before you pitch. Make sure the temperature is in bounds and all that...
Mark
 

wareemba

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OK, I'll take some readings,

Just basing it on no bubbles/smells...
 

wareemba

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Thanks for the time you have all taken to reply...

Sorry to have used up your time with my ineptitude...

It's actually down to 1.005! From ~1.040

Time to bottle? The pear juice doesn't ferment out dry does it?
 

MHB

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I would give it another day or two, EC-1118 is a beast and will dry it out completely, and yes Pear juice will ferment very dry, dryer than Apple in most cases. Pure juice at 1.040, I wouldn't be surprised if you saw 1.000 or close (either side)

It isn't ineptitude unless you don't learn from the experience, I doubt any of us knew everything when we started and am still a long way from there my self.
Mark
 

Danscraftbeer

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As MHB mentioned. Don't be surprised if it finishes at 0.995. Being cider I'd give it 2 weeks in the primary.
I add Lactose (non fermentable sugar) to my ciders pre ferment so they finish a bit sweeter at around 1.014.
 

manticle

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My understanding is that pear is slightly less fermentable than apple, due to the presence of sorbitol (happy to be wrong) but I'd still expect less than 1.005. Definitely worth being patient.
 

earle

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Sorbitol, the stuff laxatives are made of. :phew:
 

yum beer

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I am drinking a mainly pear juice cider at the moment, includes about 15% the above tin.
Finished at 1.007 with US-05. Drinking quite nice.
 

Danscraftbeer

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I got a bit of tartness with mine even when it finished at 1.012. I used wlp023. Turned out at 6.2%. Its good as is for some if you don't mind tart cider. I am out to impress with some mainstream tasters so I threw into the keg 1lt Apple Cordial (good stuff) to balance the tart with some sweet. Cheat!
 

wareemba

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Thanks again brains trust!

This is my first pear & apple brew, so kinda jumping at shadows I guess?

I'll get another reading in a few days... No harm letting it sit, right? Temp has been very stable between 20-22...
 

Danscraftbeer

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Its good to let sit. Even for over a month I've had good results leaving Cider on the yeast cake. In relation to your Avatar. Cover it from light. A good choice blanket, anything. Brews in the dark! ;)
 

wareemba

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Its good to let sit. Even for over a month I've had good results leaving Cider on the yeast cake.
hmmm, I have been very busy and it has sat there in the fermenter since Christmas...

it now tastes and smells a bit like vinegar, definitely not pleasant as it tasted when i checked the gravity :(

i guess i should have bottled it straight away???
 

Danscraftbeer

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hmmm, I have been very busy and it has sat there in the fermenter since Christmas...

it now tastes and smells a bit like vinegar, definitely not pleasant as it tasted when i checked the gravity :(

i guess i should have bottled it straight away???
Vinegar happens from infection if its happened that quickly it would happen in the bottle as well. Yeast cake shouldn't give that flavor. I make cider vinegar too so that's what I would do with it if its too tart or possibly infected allready. You have to infect it really well though with organic vinegar like Braggs bottled vinegar to seed/infect it if you were interested in doing that I can give some tips.
Re- the pear juice I wouldn't use it again because I think it was what gave mine a bit of tartness.
 

wareemba

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hmmm, not good!

so i should revert back to using a proper lid and air lock versus the glad wrap & rubber band method?

i did take the cover off a few times...

or is it more likely a pre-pitch sanitation thing?
 

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