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American India Pale Ale (aipa) Help Please!

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bignath

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First time i've ever had a crack at trying to brew an AIPA.

Also the first time i've ever tried 100% late cube hopping.

Can someone please run their eye's over the below proposed recipe which i wan't to brew this week.

Cascade hops are going to be added to the cube with wort drained on top of it. Calculated as a 15min addition.

Is this recipe going to create a strongly hopped beer with enough malt to back it up?

The "stats" land it pretty evenly inside BJCP style guidelines, but that doesn't mean it will taste good....

Cheers all in advance

BN

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Cascade Cube Hopped IPA
Brewer: Nathan Creedy
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 29.96 l
Post Boil Volume: 24.96 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 l
Bottling Volume: 20.50 l
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 10.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 60.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.7 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SR Grain 1 84.9 %
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 2 9.4 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.7 %
0.05 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (381.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.0 %
201.00 g Cascade [5.60 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 60.0 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 6 -
1.0 pkg SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast 7 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.31 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Tem. Step Time
Saccharification Add 25.28 l of water at 70.1 C 66.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C 78.0 C 10 min

Sparge 8lt through grain bag and basket.

Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:

Post Boil - let sit for 20mins to dissipate hot currents, add Cascade hops to cube, transfer beer to cube.


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

mje1980

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You'll get ten different answers on this. Best to try it with a moe "normal" batch, and adjust calcs if needed mate. Cube hopping, and no chill hopping technique varies a lot, as we all have different tastes.
 

.DJ.

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ive just done a IIPA with 200g of cubehopped only Simcoe... tastes :icon_drool2: from the fermenter...

I rekon you shuld be good wth this recipie
 

sponge

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Recipe looks good and as mark said, might need to tweak the cube additions to suit your setup.

I started as a 10min addition but noticed quite a few beers coming out excessively bitter, and have now scaled back to 15min to compensate.

You could always try cube hopping as a 15min addition with a known recipe first and adjust accordingly for the bitterness and adjust to suit this recipe with their being such a large quantity of hops. Probably good your going with cascade first and not a high alpha hop just incase the calcs are slightly out.

Should make for a tasty drop either way...


Sponge
 

bum

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I know it is only a very small amount but I'd consider omitting the choc. I find that cube hopping makes a different sort of beer where you get an interesting sort of separataion between the malt and hop flavours and the choc would be a bit weird in that beer if it were brought forward, IMO.

Also, because of the differences in the resulting beer in traditional v cube hopping - I'd really suggest you consider doing something like a 10min IPA then adding a cube-hop addition. I like cube-hopped IPAs but they are fairly different to commercial varienties - especially local ones.

I've noticed that cube-hopped US styles seem to fade a little faster too so make sure you hook in fairly rapidly once it is ready. Could be my practice but I find the sweet spot for these beers is always shorter than their lifetime (but I don't get through batches as quickly as other might).
 

seamad

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I've done a ipa (just) with an OG of 1055. Grain was MO 95% and heritage Xtal 5% at 67C. Used 1318 (london ale III)

Counted my cube hops as 10 minute additions.

60 Ibu with Citra, Simcoe and Galaxy but being high AA was about 130g from memory.

Came out pretty tasty.

My only concern is that 200g in the cube may tend to get a little grassy, maybe use 150g in cube and make up bitterness with some FWH or a 45 addition.

OT, but have you tried a brew yet with ro water yet ?

cheers
sean
 

bignath

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I've done a ipa (just) with an OG of 1055. Grain was MO 95% and heritage Xtal 5% at 67C. Used 1318 (london ale III)

Counted my cube hops as 10 minute additions.

60 Ibu with Citra, Simcoe and Galaxy but being high AA was about 130g from memory.

Came out pretty tasty.

My only concern is that 200g in the cube may tend to get a little grassy, maybe use 150g in cube and make up bitterness with some FWH or a 45 addition.

OT, but have you tried a brew yet with ro water yet ?

cheers
sean
yeah, id thought about what other flavours i may get out of 200g in a cube besides the good ones...will have a good think about your suggestion.

re water: RO water....not sure exactly what that is. Reverse Osmosis or Run Off water? I've read a little on it and have read threads with different people calling RO different things, probably directly proportional to their level of experience.
Due to the conflicting readings i've seen, i haven't bothered to look into it an further.

I brew with just the local water supply, non adjusted. One day will get into salts and additions to target certain things but that's on my to do list, and not something i've looked too far into either.

I have brewed with rainwater before with great results, also not adjusted.

@bum, i've never used the choc malt before. saw it in the local yesterday when i was in getting some medium crystal. Will it add a flavour to the beer in that quantity? (50g). Seriously, i don't know.....not being sarcastic. Only added it to get the colour up to a more of the middle line within bjcp styles. Looks a little on the lighter side without it, but if you think it will be better without, i'll leave it out and take your experience.

thanks all for the replies so far. keep 'em coming. (please).
 

bignath

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OK, taking on board bum and seamad's suggestion of dropping the choc, and adding some late (or fwh) to lessen the grassiness of a massive cube hop, i've come up with this.

Does this look better?


BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Cascade Cube Hopped IPA
Brewer: Nathan Creedy
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 29.96 l
Post Boil Volume: 24.96 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 l
Bottling Volume: 20.50 l
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 7.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.7 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SR Grain 1 85.7 %
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 2 9.5 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.8 %
35.00 g Cascade [5.60 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 4 16.2 IBUs
150.00 g Cascade [5.60 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 45.0 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 6 -
1.0 pkg SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast 7 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.25 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Saccharification Add 25.25 l of water at 70.1 C 66.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add -0.00 l of water and heat to 78.0 C 78.0 C 10 min


Sparge with 8lt's @ 78.0 C

Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort

Notes:
------
30 MIN hops are flameout addition.
15 MIN hops are cube hopped.



Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Nick JD

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I find cube-hopped IPAs lack a "resiny" character I like in my IPAs and since I've taken to having at least half the IBUs from a 60 minute boil.

YMMV.
 

cam89brewer

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Is there really a benefit to cube-hopping? I have never tried it before as I have a chiller... It seems like it takes a lot more effort than doing your normal boil and hop additions...
 

sponge

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Its to help reduce the effect of aroma and flavour compounds going straight to bitterness when late hops are added to the boil, since theyre slowly chilling in the cube as opposed to rapidly being chilled, and therefore add more bitterness (although this topic has been discussed quite a bit before).

Since cube hopping is the latest stage a no-chiller can add their hops, they do that instead of/along side flame out and WP additions


Sponge
 

bum

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Nath, I'm not flat out saying it is a bad idea to have the choc - it is only a small amount, after all. Was just pointing out that in general it seems to me the malt balances slightly differently and you'll want to be sure you want it there. It wouldn't ruin the beer by any means, I just reckon it might be a bit odd if some of the roast came through - you might really like it.

I find cube-hopped IPAs lack a "resiny" character I like in my IPAs and since I've taken to having at least half the IBUs from a 60 minute boil.

YMMV.
I find if you use the more famously resinous US hops you still get some of the resin thing. But you're correct in that this comes through better in the boil.

As for the grassiness discussed - I think (as with all brews) it depends on what varieties of hop you're using. Hops that you find tend towards grass in the kettle will throw some in the cube - hops that don't do so in the kettle probably won't as long as you don't leave the cube sitting around forever first.
 

bignath

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Is there really a benefit to cube-hopping? I have never tried it before as I have a chiller... It seems like it takes a lot more effort than doing your normal boil and hop additions...
more effort? I tend to disagree cambrew...

I've had a chiller before, but hated the extra cleaning, extra water required for my situation (i don't have the ability to reuse my water).

nothing hard about throwing some hops into the cube before you open the tap on your kettle to transfer. Love the whole no chill thing as opposed to chilling. It just suits me better in my brewing situations (usually very time poor). I can brew like a bastard when i get some rare spare time, and stockpile it until i need to ferment.

Are my beers better or worse for the no chill? no idea, as i've become a better brewer in every area over the years, so any negative impact that may be present due to no chilling (debatable, and often covered...) would be covered my improved skills.

to me it's not a better way to brew, it's not an inferior way to brew, it's just another method that happens to work better in my circumstances. Just takes a little time to alter recipes to suit the method that's all.

@nick, i don't mind the idea of combining the cube hops and a traditional 60min addition. I suppose that way i'll have a more tangible level of bitterness i can work with later if tweaking is required, and i guess i'll get heaps of flavour and aroma off of the cube hop.

Maybe do 30IBU's @ 60min, and the remainder as a cube hop?
 

Nick JD

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I find if you use the more famously resinous US hops you still get some of the resin thing. But you're correct in that this comes through better in the boil.
I recently did a "65s" IPA (65C, 1.065, 65 IBUs) with only one 60 minute addition of Amarillo/Cascade/Galaxy, and then dry hopped in 2ndary. Buckets of aroma and good and resinous - for me the solution to nochilling and aroma is dry hopping, rather than cube hopping. Aroma leaves with the CO2 during fermentation.
 

bignath

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I recently did a "65s" IPA (65C, 1.065, 65 IBUs) with only one 60 minute addition of Amarillo/Cascade/Galaxy, and then dry hopped in 2ndary.
now that sounds really interesting....you've got me thinking about trying something like this now....hmmmm.

how did you balance the cascade vs galaxy @60min? I have both hops at the moment in good quantities and have heard that they play quite well together.

I don't have any amarillo.

Half the ibu's from each hop be a good start?
 

bum

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I recently did a "65s" IPA (65C, 1.065, 65 IBUs) with only one 60 minute addition of Amarillo/Cascade/Galaxy, and then dry hopped in 2ndary. Buckets of aroma and good and resinous - for me the solution to nochilling and aroma is dry hopping, rather than cube hopping. Aroma leaves with the CO2 during fermentation.
You're correct. However, I find that flavour comes forward a bit more with this method but primarily with heavily hopped beers. As suggest above, I also feel there are stability issues with this method.

I don't do it for every brew. I don't think it is the miracle cure for the issues that can be presented by no-chilling - it can even introduce new ones. I do think it can be a useful method for certain beers. I think Nath's might be one of them.

Personal preferences and all that.

[EDIT: added quote]
 

Nick JD

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You're correct. However, I find that flavour comes forward a bit more with this method but primarily with heavily hopped beers. As suggest above, I also feel there are stability issues with this method.

I don't do it for every brew. I don't think it is the miracle cure for the issues that can be presented by no-chilling - it can even introduce new ones. I do think it can be a useful method for certain beers. I think Nath's might be one of them.

Personal preferences and all that.

[EDIT: added quote]
Tis true. This is more about personal preference than a "correct" way.
 

Nick JD

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now that sounds really interesting....you've got me thinking about trying something like this now....hmmmm.

how did you balance the cascade vs galaxy @60min? I have both hops at the moment in good quantities and have heard that they play quite well together.

I don't have any amarillo.

Half the ibu's from each hop be a good start?
For the 60 minute addition I have the same amount of IBUs from each hop - which limits the Galaxy to passionfruit rather than lawnclippings as it's a high AA hop (and high harsh bittering compounds).

For the dry hop, same weight for each hop. I dry hop for 24-48 hours, rarely longer - especially with suspects like Galaxy. I dry hop conservatively (1g/L all up) - dry hoppin goes a long way compared with late kettle/jerry additions.

Try both ways - see which one works for you.
 

bignath

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For the 60 minute addition I have the same amount of IBUs from each hop - which limits the Galaxy to passionfruit rather than lawnclippings as it's a high AA hop (and high harsh bitterer).

For the dry hop, same weight for each hop. I dry hop for 24-48 hours, rarely longer - especially with suspects like Galaxy.

Try both ways - see which one works for you.
sweet. thanks mate.

any problems with just upping the grain bill to '65 or would you leave anything out, add anything else, change qty's etc...??

thinking i might just scale up to '65 as is (then i'll know if the choc works or not) and do 32.5IBU's of cascade and galaxy @60mins...

EDIT: how much dry hop 1g/lt each?? more??
 

Nick JD

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sweet. thanks mate.

any problems with just upping the grain bill to '65 or would you leave anything out, add anything else, change qty's etc...??

thinking i might just scale up to '65 as is (then i'll know if the choc works or not) and do 32.5IBU's of cascade and galaxy @60mins...

EDIT: how much dry hop 1g/lt each?? more??
Malt bill looks fine. Should come through nicely in between the bitterness and the aroma.

1g/L all up. Most would find this a bit conservative, but Galaxy needs to be babied as a dry hopper or it can screw up your brew. 48 hours.
 

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