Amber Ale style Anzac beer thoughts

[madpierre06]

I've put together a recipe based on a couple different ideas I've seen around, making adjustments from extract as well so would appreciate any feedback on what could probably be best fitted in the amber ale range. I'm looking for something along the Anzac biscuit flavour line so it really is a swing and see effort.

Mash

Maris Otter (Th.Fawcett Fl. Malted) 1.520kg
Munich I (Weyer.) 1.110kg 15L
Pilsner Pale (B.B.) 0.750kg
Biscuit (Dingemans) 0.230kg 23L
Rolled Oats 0.230kg
Roasted Coconut 0.115kg


Steeped

Caraamber Malt (Weyer.) 0.430kg 60L
Crystal Malt Pale (Bairds) 0.230kg 101L

Hops

Challenger UK 60mins 23gm

Challenger UK 15mins 12gm
Fuggles NZ 15mins 12gm

Challenger UK 5mins 12gms
Fuggles NZ 5mins 12gms

Yeast

Safale S-04


Extras

Lyles Golden Syrup 15min boil 280gm
Lactose 15min boil 280gm

Vanilla Bean 15min boil 1 only
Cinnamon Stick 15min boil 1 only

Mixed spice 15min boil 7gm

O.G. 1046
F.G. 1012

IBU 28

ABV 4.5%

 

[verysupple]

Wow, that's got everything except the kitchen sink. Unless I misunderstood you, this is your first AG batch? I'd be keeping it nice and simple until you work your system out. But if you're going ahead with this batch then I have a couple of tips.

If you're doing a mash just stick your crystal malts in with the rest. There's no need to steep them separately.

With all those malts and adjuncts - and a lot of them are quite strongly flavoured - you probably won't be able to even tell some things are in there. As an example, I don't think it's worth putting in 750 g of Pils malt. Every ingredient should be there to add something. If you can't tell it's there, why over complicate things?

 

[Midnight Brew]

As very supple mentioned, there is far too much going on in that beer to be able to identify each of the ingredients.

I think the best approach would be to decide what your goal is. Eg do you want a beer that tastes likes ANZAC biscuits, an ANZAC beer where most if your ingredients that build the recipe are Australian/New Zealand. Personally I like the idea but as a first all grain I think it's too complicated and is going to turn out brownish in taste.

Don't fall for the kitchen sink trap.

 

[Milk-lizard84]

I have just bottled pretty much the exact same beer. Got the recipe from a home brew calendar I got for Christmas.
Good luck with it Madpierre.

 

[jimmy86]

As mentioned swap the pils malt for more marris otter.
Also I'd look at dropping the late hops also, you will lose them to the spices.
While your toasting the coconut toast the oats as well, that will add I nice nutty flavour to go with the mouthfeel they add.
Five minutes for the spices is plenty of time.

Happy brewing

 

[TheWiggman]

Huge fan of Anzac bikkies (who isn't?) and if you could somehow get that character then you're on a winner. Adventurous brewing though.

For mine, Anzac biscuits are all about the toasted oats and sweetness of the caramelised golden syrup. I'd focus on those.

I'd toast the rolled oats prior to get some of the cooked flavour from them. I'd bump it up to 500g to push that flavour.

Cocount in the mash, can't see it doing much. I'd consider pre-toasting it and using it in the secondary.

Golden syrup - yes yes yes. Maybe consider adding this during primary fermentation as boiling may lose some flavour/aroma (though I'm sure people could argue it won't do anything for taste because of how fermentable it is). Again, I'd cook it to caramelise it somewhat as this is a distinct flavour in Anzac biscuits.

Wouldn't bother with the vanilla bean or cinnamon stick, I think they'll detract from the burnt biscuit and caramel goodness. I'd leave the lactose and spices out too.

S-04 sounds good. I think an English yeast (005?) would be well suited and push the right flavours.

Godspeed my man.

 

[crowmanz]

I have just bottled pretty much the exact same beer. Got the recipe from a home brew calendar I got for Christmas.
Good luck with it Madpierre.

that extract recipe is the april recipe

http://blog.browntrout.com.au/home-brew-beer/
Ingredients:
Fermentables
Dingemans Biscuit Malt (Mout Roost 50 – Crushed) – 0.2 kg
Briess Caramel Malt 60 L (Crushed) – 0.2 kg
Simpsons Crystal Malt (Crushed) – 0.2 kg
Roasted Rolled Oats – 0.2 kg
Roasted Desiccated Coconut – 0.1 kg
Briess Munich Liquid Malt Extract – 1.0 kg
Briess Sparkling Amber Light Malt Extract – 1.0 kg
Briess Sparkling Amber Dry Malt Extract – 0.3 kg
Lyle’s Golden Syrup 0.25 kg
Lactose 0.25 kg
Hops
Challenger (UK) – 40 grams
New Zealand Fuggles – 20 grams
Yeast
Safale S-04 – 1 pkt
Extras
Vanilla Beans – 1 piece
Cinnamon Sticks – 1 piece
Mixed Spiced – 7 grams

 

[Blind Dog]

I'm with the keep it simple crowd. Every ingredient should serve a purpose and you should know what that purpose is.

The original recipe (post 7) almost looks like someone had a list of ingredients for Anzac biscuits and tried to convert it to a beer recipe and then added even more ingredients just for the sake of it. If you look at the classic beer styles they are generally really simple in terms of ingredients, and that helps each ingredient to shine; its really easy to make a muddled mess (and yes I have, many times which is why I now advocate simplicity first).

Personally, I'd go with MO, biscuit, and a medium to dark crystal/cara malt (probably at 90/5/5), and question if you need oats as (in my experience) they don't add any 'oatiness' to beer. I'd also ditch the golden syrup and simply take about 3L of unhopped wort post mash and boil it hard to a syrup (about 250ml) taking care not to burn it and add that back towards the end of the boil.

I'd also ditch the spices, or maybe think about splitting the batch so half is spiced and half not.

Challenger is a great hop. NZ Fuggles I've never used but hopefully they're at the fruity/spicy Willamette/Styrian Golding end of the Fuggle spectrum rather than the earthy UK end?

 

[madpierre06]

Thanks for the feedback fellas. Yes, the original base for this was an extract recipe I found trolling and did some research to convert the extract components to AG. I new there was an Anzac beer recipe in the calender but hadn't checked it out, interesting looking at it now that it is identical to the recipe I found which I have used as the basis for the one I've put together. Wonder who had it first...the calender or the original poster elsewhere, and why there was no acknowledgement made. Just checked, the one which I found online was done in mid 2012. Just double checked, appropriate acknowledgement made.

Anyways, the concern I did have was as already posted here there is a kitchen sink factor and this is one of the reasons I was looking for feedback. The large and mixed grain bill is resultng from the grains which were used to put together the extracts in the first place (as I've found in my research). I have done a handful of AG brews and this was my first go at finding recipes and tweaking them in order tyo start building my own knowledge base with the end result being building my own recipes from scratch. There've been a couple of good points here already which will go towards putting the final brew together and certainly helpful for me personally.

I have just bottled pretty much the exact same beer. Got the recipe from a home brew calendar I got for Christmas.
Good luck with it Madpierre.

Pleas elet me know how it goes mate.

 

[Milk-lizard84]

No worries Madpierre. I only just bottled it. I didnt get any coconut taste from just a mash addition so I add 100g in a hop sock with a vanilla pod post fermenting and let it sit for a week.
Seemed to over power other flavours when I tasted the sample but I'm sure it will settle abit.
This was my grain bill if it helps. Kind cobbled it together from spec grains from original recipe and an amber ale recipe from brewing classic styles

 

[Samuel Adams]

I did an ANZAC beer last year with all Australian malt, Aus & NZ hops, golden syrup, toasted oats & re-cultured coopers yeast.
It turned out ok but seeing this thread has inspired me to have another go & get it better.
I won't restrict myself to 100% Aus malt this time so I can use Dingemans biscuit malt (hey the Belgians were allies at least) & maybe some UK crystal.
I added the golden syrup to the boil & you could taste it in the beer even though most of the sugar would've fermented out. This time I'll add it after a few days of fermentation & possibly bulk prime with it too.
Not sure where to incorporate the coconut, maybe the boil @ 10 mins ? or secondary as TheWiggman suggested.

Here's another couple of threads on ANZAC beers;
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76870-oats-and-golden-syrup-anzac-biscuit-beer/
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/53091-anzac-biscuit-beer-whos-got-the-recipe/

 

[madpierre06]

After going through the varying and all very helpful suggestions, I've come up with a probable goer:

Bushman's Rifles Amber Ale

Maris Otter (Th. Fawcett Fl. Malted) 3.800kg 80%

Biscuit (Dingemans) 0.275kg 5%

Crystal Malt Pale 101L 0.275kg 5%

Rolled Oats (roasted) 0.500kg 10%


3L wort + 280gm Golden Syrup - Boil down separately them mixed back in with boil


Hops


Challenger UK 60mins 23gm

Challenger UK 15mins 12gm
Williamette 15mins 12gm

Challenger UK 5mins 12gms
Williamette 5mins 12gms


Yeast


WLP-005


Mash @70C/70mins

Boil 60mins

23L batch

O.G. 1049

F.G. 1012

IBU 28.6

ABV 4.8%



I'm gonna be a few weeks at least off doing this one now due to circumstances here but once done and tasted will put up some feedback. I really appreciate any and all of the comments posted in the thread as they have all given me different aspects of the thought processes I have to apply to build my own recipes.

Milk-lizard84 - please feel free to post your tasting results back here when you've given your brew time to condition.

Likewise Samuel Adams.

 

[Milk-lizard84]

So after about 2 weeks in the bottle I cracked one. I think it turned out pretty good. I cubed this beer and the bitterness is spot on. Seems quite balanced even with the added extras and lactose. Coconut flavours are there but in the background.
Only problem I had with it was I didn't crash chill enough and am left with desiccated coconut floaties in the brew so that's the only downfall.
Interested to see how yours came out Madpierre.

 

[madpierre06]

So after about 2 weeks in the bottle I cracked one. I think it turned out pretty good. I cubed this beer and the bitterness is spot on. Seems quite balanced even with the added extras and lactose. Coconut flavours are there but in the background.
Only problem I had with it was I didn't crash chill enough and am left with desiccated coconut floaties in the brew so that's the only downfall.
Interested to see how yours came out Madpierre.

Love the colour of that mate, and nice to hear it turned out well. As I alluded to few weeks ago, circumstances were delaying putting mine down and it looks like I'll be able to get the grain bill and put it down late this week/early next. Really looking to try this one out based on your results, eh. Shame you're not in Brissie, woulda been nice to swap and get a good idea on what the different recipes do.

Again, nice looking drop there, eh.

 

[takai]

Im just about to brew something in this vein. This is my current recipe, with liberal inspiration from madpierre:


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.052
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 5.35%
IBU (tinseth): 34.29
SRM (morey): 9.21

FERMENTABLES:
3.8 kg - American - Pale 2-Row (78.8%)
0.275 kg - Belgian - Biscuit (5.7%)
0.2 kg - American - Caramel / Crystal 20L (4.1%)
0.5 kg - Rolled Oats (10.4%)
0.05 kg - American - Chocolate (1%)

HOPS:
20 g - Pride of Ringwood, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 26.81
25 g - Fuggles, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 7.48

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
200 g - Toasted Dessicated Coconut, Time: 90 min, Type: Other, Use: Mash
280 g - Golden Syrup, Time: 15 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil
1 each - Cinnamon Stick, Time: 0 min, Type: Spice, Use: Primary

YEAST:
Mangrove Jack - British Ale Yeast

Debating on when i put the coconut in. Some recipes have it in the mash, others in the boil and others in at secondary.

Thoughts on the recipe? Ideas?

 

[Milk-lizard84]

I used it in the mash but didn't really get much flavour from it. So I added 100g post ferment in a hop bag for about 5 days. Aroma and taste was abit intense tasting samples but it did mellow out in the bottle

 

[takai]

Perhaps ill do both then Impart some of the toasty coconut goodness via the mash and then 50g in the fermenter. Same question goes for the Cinnamon i guess too, should i infuse that at secondary?

 

[fcmcg]

I made an ANZAC beer on the weekend....
I'll post my recipe when i get home...
also added half a pack of actual biccy's to the masg and the other half to the boil....
Also inverted half my golden syrup , with some lemon juice...

 

[gap]

I thought Golden Syrup was already inverted.

 

[fcmcg]

might well be....