Add Dry Hop ??

[Nob]

Hi All,

Recently getting into brewing and in particular, pressure fermenting.
I have Kissaski that I have just put down this morning.
In the notes and step #5 is reads: Add dry hop near or at end of fermentation, dry hop approximately 3 days.

What is meant by this?
Do I need to add more to the mix after fermentation is complete?
If so, which one does one go for - to suit this Kissaki wort??

Pete

 

[Luxo_Aussie]

G'day Pete,

By the sounds of things you'd need to add your dry hops when your gravity is a few points from completion. Depending on your fermentation temperature this is probably about day 5-10 days after pitching yeast depending on your yeast strain, starting gravity, fermentation temperature & other factors. If you aren't sure I'd dry hop when you gravity reaches about 1.012 (just a guess based on a regular style) or when you have an airlock movement every 20 seconds. Leave the hops in for only three days, so you'll need some sort of hop sock to hold things so you can remove them after the time.

Cheers,

 

[Grmblz]

More info needed Nob, what pressure fermenter are you using, how much pressure, and what temp?
If as I suspect it's a clear PET @ 10ish psi @ 20c start looking at day 5, when you see it starting to clear (a thin layer on the top getting clear) put the hops in a sanitised hop sock and chuck them in, leave for 3 days as per instructions.
Now comes the interesting part, removing the hops. you can transfer the beer to another fermenter leaving the hops behind or you can remove the hops from the beer, tie a bit of floss to the bag so you can lift it out, there's several option.
Adding oxygen to nearly finished beer is bad, and you will certainly do this when you open the fermenter to add the hops.
A bit late for you now but maybe something to consider for next time.
Put hops in a hop bag along with a stir plate magnet or magnetic stainless nut/washer (a lot of stainless is magnetic) and using a strong rare earth magnet (evil bay, search neodymium) secure the sock above the level of the wort (sock, washer/nut and hops inside, magnet on the outside) the fermentation will take care of any oxygen, when ready to hop just remove magnet and hops will fall into the wort, after 3 days (or whatever) use the magnet to lift hop sock out of the beer (just slide it up the side of the fermenter till the hop sock is above liquid level.
It's a good way when using a pressure fermenter to hop when you want to for as long as you like without ever opening the fermenter, couple this with a closed pressure transfer into a keg and you greatly reduce the chances of oxygen or contamination spoiling your brew. You can even use multiple socks with different hops for staggered hop additions without the fear of "grassiness" occurring from over exposure of the hops to the beer.
If bottling the secondary fermentation in the bottle will help with the oxygen, but you still want to get the hops out of the beer after the allotted time, you can then leave the beer to settle for a couple of weeks or more knowing that the hops are out of the equation.

 

[Cha]

I read a paper that stated grassiness from leaving the hops in for an extended period was a myth. Anyone?

 

[philrob]

Depends on the hop variety. Some are more prone than others.
My last IIPA I dry hopped for 10 days with 4 gr/litre, and had no issues, using Cascade, Citra, Simcoe, and Mosaic.

 

[Grmblz]

I read a paper that stated grassiness from leaving the hops in for an extended period was a myth. Anyone?

Don't believe everything you read.
Having said that, read this lol. Off-Flavor of the Week: Grassy

 

[Nob]

More info needed Nob, what pressure fermenter are you using, how much pressure, and what temp?
If as I suspect it's a clear PET @ 10ish psi @ 20c start looking at day 5, when you see it starting to clear (a thin layer on the top getting clear) put the hops in a sanitised hop sock and chuck them in, leave for 3 days as per instructions.
Now comes the interesting part, removing the hops. you can transfer the beer to another fermenter leaving the hops behind or you can remove the hops from the beer, tie a bit of floss to the bag so you can lift it out, there's several option.
Adding oxygen to nearly finished beer is bad, and you will certainly do this when you open the fermenter to add the hops.
A bit late for you now but maybe something to consider for next time.
Put hops in a hop bag along with a stir plate magnet or magnetic stainless nut/washer (a lot of stainless is magnetic) and using a strong rare earth magnet (evil bay, search neodymium) secure the sock above the level of the wort (sock, washer/nut and hops inside, magnet on the outside) the fermentation will take care of any oxygen, when ready to hop just remove magnet and hops will fall into the wort, after 3 days (or whatever) use the magnet to lift hop sock out of the beer (just slide it up the side of the fermenter till the hop sock is above liquid level.
It's a good way when using a pressure fermenter to hop when you want to for as long as you like without ever opening the fermenter, couple this with a closed pressure transfer into a keg and you greatly reduce the chances of oxygen or contamination spoiling your brew. You can even use multiple socks with different hops for staggered hop additions without the fear of "grassiness" occurring from over exposure of the hops to the beer.
If bottling the secondary fermentation in the bottle will help with the oxygen, but you still want to get the hops out of the beer after the allotted time, you can then leave the beer to settle for a couple of weeks or more knowing that the hops are out of the equation.

Hey Grmblz,

Thanks for the reply,,,,,, a great read and many things to consider for next time, but I need to work out what to do with the one I have just put down.
But firstly, I need to answer your questions:

I have two Fermentors, a 30L Snub-Nose and have also just got myself a Keg-King Jnr (Don't forget I still have two 19L Kegs). I have fermenting taking place at the moment in the Snub-Nose.
I put it down yesterday and has pressurised well. I have the pressure set at 15 PSI and the Fridge Temp also at 15C.

The plan is, on the 4th day, bring the tump up to 18C and let it rest for another 4 days. At this point I will cold crash it down to about 1C ????
It will sit in this state until I tap it, which I would assume - after around 4 days.

Now...... the Hops, I got this morning some Saaz 12g (Morgan), which are like a tea-bag I believe.

I am thinking that at the time I decide to Cold-Crash and the temp is still up around 18C, I would place the Hops into water as noted in the directions, then place this into the Kin-Jnr (No Bag), purge the oxygen out, then use my transfer into the Jnr.

Or I could do the above, leaving the bag in place, then after 3-4 days, then transfer this across to one of my Kegs. Purging at all stages to prevent oxygen contamination.

What's ya thoughts??

Nob

 

[kadmium]

I read a paper that stated grassiness from leaving the hops in for an extended period was a myth. Anyone?

Next time I use Mosaic (probably never) at 7 days I will try and tell myself its a myth...

There's papers on everything both for and against in brewing. Look at any topic and you will find proponents for both sides!

Best thing to do is err on the side of caution and experiment for yourself. Hop creep is definitely a risk if leaving too long.

Also, it depends on heaps of factors like yeast strain, protein content, bio transformation, hop variety, method of hopping, form of hops (whole / T90 Pellets / Lupulin Cryo) etc.

There's a reason those of use who hop in big quantities take lots of measures to ensure we don't end up with a hop burnt beer that takes 3 weeks to age out.

 

[MashBasher]

I can't drink fat yak. After two glasses of that excessively dry hopped crap I burp and get a taste like I just swallowed the lawnmower catcher .

Dry hopping is okay if done in moderation and allowed to age out. Like, you know, whacking a couple of plugs in a barrel while your tea clipper ship transports your IPA on a long voyage to India...

 

[kadmium]

I can't drink fat yak. After two glasses of that excessively dry hopped crap I burp and get a taste like I just swallowed the lawnmower catcher .

Dry hopping is okay if done in moderation and allowed to age out. Like, you know, whacking a couple of plugs in a barrel while your tea clipper ship transports your IPA on a long voyage to India...

Last time I mowed the lawn, forgot to empty the catcher soon enough. Pulled it off while the mower was running (still got all 6 fingers) and was blasted with a mouthful of Coopers XPA. I mean lawn clippings.

 

[butisitart]

Last time I mowed the lawn, forgot to empty the catcher soon enough. Pulled it off while the mower was running (still got all 6 fingers) and was blasted with a mouthful of Coopers XPA. I mean lawn clippings.

this is why i have a psychological aversion to hops. when i was 3, i hid in me dad's lawn catcher while playing hide 'n' seek one day, and he decided to mow the lawn.
couldn't hear my plaintive little cries over the f***g noise of the lawnmower

 

[Grmblz]

^ That's Gold, sad but gold.

 

[Grmblz]

Hi Nob, ask 5 brewers the same question and you will get 6 different answers, with that in mind I have a couple of thoughts for you.

"The plan is, on the 4th day, bring the tump up to 18C and let it rest for another 4 days. At this point I will cold crash it down to about 1C ????
It will sit in this state until I tap it, which I would assume - after around 4 days"

You are relying on time rather than observation to track your fermentation which is not a very reliable method, much better to take samples to determine progress.
Easy with a pressure ferment, just get a liquid disconnect with a picnic tap/pluto gun there'll be plenty of pressure to take samples.

"Now...... the Hops, I got this morning some Saaz 12g (Morgan), which are like a tea-bag I believe.
I am thinking that at the time I decide to Cold-Crash and the temp is still up around 18C, I would place the Hops into water as noted in the directions, then place this into the Kin-Jnr (No Bag), purge the oxygen out, then use my transfer into the Jnr."

Ok so you're making a hop tea with a 12g Saaz "finishing hops" teabag.
Saaz aren't a particularly strong hop and are usually used for delicate aroma/flavour additions, and 12g isn't very much in the scheme of things.
You'll need to be careful that any purging you do doesn't "purge" that delicate aroma right out of there.
My very limited experience with hop teas has been confined to adding them to finished beers, experimenting with different hops to see how they affect a base brew,
In your situation I think I would transfer the finished beer to the purged serving keg of choice, then depressurise it and add the tea without the bag, refit lid pressurise keg, purge once, and done.
Maybe someone here with more teabag experience can chime in.
One thing I would do is fill a bottle from the fermenter during transfer, so the next day you can compare the beer with and without the hop addition, my gut feeling is that with 12g Saaz there wont be much if any difference.
How about a write up letting us know how it turns out?

 

[Nob]

Hi Nob, ask 5 brewers the same question and you will get 6 different answers, with that in mind I have a couple of thoughts for you.

"The plan is, on the 4th day, bring the tump up to 18C and let it rest for another 4 days. At this point I will cold crash it down to about 1C ????
It will sit in this state until I tap it, which I would assume - after around 4 days"

You are relying on time rather than observation to track your fermentation which is not a very reliable method, much better to take samples to determine progress.
Easy with a pressure ferment, just get a liquid disconnect with a picnic tap/pluto gun there'll be plenty of pressure to take samples.

"Now...... the Hops, I got this morning some Saaz 12g (Morgan), which are like a tea-bag I believe.
I am thinking that at the time I decide to Cold-Crash and the temp is still up around 18C, I would place the Hops into water as noted in the directions, then place this into the Kin-Jnr (No Bag), purge the oxygen out, then use my transfer into the Jnr."

Ok so you're making a hop tea with a 12g Saaz "finishing hops" teabag.
Saaz aren't a particularly strong hop and are usually used for delicate aroma/flavour additions, and 12g isn't very much in the scheme of things.
You'll need to be careful that any purging you do doesn't "purge" that delicate aroma right out of there.
My very limited experience with hop teas has been confined to adding them to finished beers, experimenting with different hops to see how they affect a base brew,
In your situation I think I would transfer the finished beer to the purged serving keg of choice, then depressurise it and add the tea without the bag, refit lid pressurise keg, purge once, and done.
Maybe someone here with more teabag experience can chime in.
One thing I would do is fill a bottle from the fermenter during transfer, so the next day you can compare the beer with and without the hop addition, my gut feeling is that with 12g Saaz there wont be much if any difference.
How about a write up letting us know how it turns out?

Absolutely. Full report on which way I ended up going and the product it created.

Pete

 

[MashBasher]

this is why i have a psychological aversion to hops. when i was 3, i hid in me dad's lawn catcher while playing hide 'n' seek one day, and he decided to mow the lawn.
couldn't hear my plaintive little cries over the f***g noise of the lawnmower

Lawnmower catcher? Luxury!