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A stolen idea.

Discussion in 'General Brewing Techniques' started by wide eyed and legless, 11/8/19.

 

  1. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 11/8/19
    I had never seen this done before a guy sent me a video where he roused the yeast from its sleep. Cold day today in Melbourne and this is the second time I have tried this,harvested yeast out of the fridge first thing this morning, mashed, and while draining the last few drops of wort into a bowl drop the yeast into the grain bed, keeps its heat for a surprisingly long time.
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  2. MHB

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    Posted 11/8/19
    You would want to be very careful, you can kill a lot of yeast by changing the temperature too quickly or too far.
    Considering that if you have mashed out your grain bed would be at 80oC (say 75 if not mashing out) and as you say it stays hot for a surprisingly long time, even if you wait an hour, shoving a bottle of dormant yeast at 5-15oC into a hot environment that is probably still over 50oC could kill a good half of your yeast.

    Maybe if you sat the yeast in a pot of ambient temperature water and sat the pot on the malt, ideally with a thermometer in there and kept an eye on it... Better to plan ahead and have your yeast in your brewing fridge the night before so its gently warmed to pitching temperature.

    Really not a good idea, sure it might make the surviving yeast really pump giving the appearance of lots of activity, but I wouldn't recommend it.
    Mark
     
  3. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 12/8/19
    Yes thats right it does stay hot, I sat it on the top initially when the top had cooled, as the wort cooled i scooped out some grain and sat it lower. Twice now I have done it it and both times it has been OK but I do appreciate it can be a set back if the temperature isn't monitored.
     
  4. onemorecell

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    Posted 12/8/19
    I can't remember the reasoning, but when the girl from imperial yeast was on a brewing podcast, she said they recommend using (their) yeast straight from the fridge - no warming on the bench (or mash) necessary

    Looking through, it might have been the Basic Brewing 6 December episode from last year (but I don't think I listened to it that long ago, so I dunno...) or more likely the 18 June Brulosophy one, if you wanted to have a listen.
     
  5. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 12/8/19
    As Mark correctly states, taking it out of the fridge which is around 3 C and dropping it into a wort of 18 to 20 C will stress the yeast, no matter which company has cultured it.
     
  6. MHB

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    Posted 12/8/19
    As will taking it out of the fridge and putting it in a much hotter mash!
    Its a really stupid idea.
    Mark
     
  7. onemorecell

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    Posted 12/8/19
    why would a yeast company (who you'd assume knows a bit about yeast) tell people otherwise?
     
  8. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 12/8/19
    Wasn't so hot when put it in, just right.
    I don't know, you could email them and ask or try it it will possibly could work but I would imagine it would be a long lag time.
     
  9. onemorecell

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    Posted 12/8/19
    oh it definitely works - i've used imperial for every beer i've made for a year. no noticeable lag time difference.
     
  10. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 12/8/19
  11. mongey

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    Posted 12/8/19
    • +1 for it works. I pitched their rustic , saison yeast , cold as directed and it started within 9 hours. And I mean proper started. Krausen galore.
     
    wide eyed and legless likes this.
  12. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 12/8/19
    I agree, if it works do it, I am skeptical but prepared to be proven wrong which I was with the Imperial yeast, and with other yeasts reading the Pro Brewers posts.
     
  13. Markbeer

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    Posted 12/8/19
    I don't like to let my yeast near unboiled grain or mash. Literally loads of nasties in there.
     
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  14. tanked84

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    Posted 12/8/19
    Looks just a good as adding it to the boil. Did you use a malt pipe or crack pipe?
     
  15. keine_ahnung

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    Posted 12/8/19
    Woooahh... far from optimal for the yeast :( :(

    It's not just about "killing" or not killing yeast, it's also about everything that's happening in the yeast. By raising the temp, the yeast's metabolism will go into overdrive. The purpose of life for yeast, is to reproduce itself. To do this, it needs energy, energy is won via the metabolism of C-sources (carbohydrates).
    Higher temp = higher rate of metabolism.
    What does the yeast metabolise when there are no free C-sources floating around in the medium?
    The next available C-sources in it's body/cell.
    THIS is the big difference between dropping the yeast into 18°C wort, and heating it up in the container in which it was stored in.
    In the wort, the yeast has a lovely rich supply of not just energy sources, but also important minerals and amino-acids.

    Higher temps during the pitching phase have many negative aspects either way (more higher alcohols, LESS esthers ---> the combination of the two! A less than optimal ratio of higher alcohols to esters (like all things in brewing, it's not just a matter of more is better or whatever. Think of IBUs vs gravity. Things need to be balanced), an "emptier" tasting beer, poor head retention).

    And the even extremer version of this (heating up the yeast before introducing sugars, amino-acids and minerals) is pretty much f**king the yeast from behind in a sauna after having had it in a fridge for a week without anything to eat!!!

    It's pretty much a form of forced-autolysis.

    People should stop being so afraid of the yeast taking a bit of time to adjust to a new wort. It NEEDS time. It's a completely different medium than what it's been sitting in for the last few weeks.
    Be kind to your yeast!


    I'm pretty certain that if I even mentioned this idea to all the brewers and brewmasters I know and work with, they'd be so dumbfounded, that they'd probably slap me in the face with beer bottle and never listen to a word I ever said again.
     
  16. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 13/8/19
    As I said, used it twice both times fermentation started of fine, the guy who sent me the DVD is a brewer of 40 years standing.
     
  17. razz

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    Posted 13/8/19
    Love the sauna analogy Keine.
     
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  18. Outback

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    Posted 13/8/19
    Yeh, but he says it like it's a bad thing!
     
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  19. MHB

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    Posted 13/8/19
    Weak response, piss weak really.
    Most of the time doing 100 in a 50 zone, you get away with it doesn't make it a really good idea.
    Learn more and post less
    Mark
     
  20. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 13/8/19
    The yeast rises to 18 C slowly It isn't plunged into the spent grain at 60 C as you are trying to make out, again, I have done this twice, carefully monitored the temperature both times have been successful.
     

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