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50L Guten/15A/extension cable

Discussion in 'Gear and Equipment' started by jackdaw, 24/1/20.

 

  1. jackdaw

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    Posted 24/1/20
    Thinking of getting a 50L Guten which are 3000W and require 15A circuit.
    In the house, I have a 15A plug that was used for an aircon unit.
    Is it it safe to run a 10m (15A) extension cable from the 15A plug to the garage when I use the Guten?
    Dont really want to get a sparky in to put a 15A separate circuit or my once a month brew.

    Cheers!
     
  2. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 24/1/20
    Just because it is rated to 3000 W doesn't mean you have to go that high, keep it 2500 W or less, even if you went 3000 W it wouldn't be for long if you are just ramping up.
     
    malt and barley blues likes this.
  3. huez

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    Posted 24/1/20
    They wouldn't be able to sell them 10metres long if they weren't safe, just make sure it's fully uncoiled. Think you can get them with an inline circuit breaker as well for added safety.
     
  4. MHB

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    Posted 24/1/20
    You wouldn't be getting much of a boil in 50L at 2.5KW, even with good insulation 3KW is going to be a bit on the limp side.
    Anyone brewing 50L batches will end up cranking it all the way up to 11 when boiling.

    In theory a 15A lead will carry the whole 3600W that 15A can supply (W=V*Amps), given that all the contacts are clean and dry... But I have seen quite a few get hot when they shouldn't.
    I don't know if the unit has a plug in to the controller like a Braumeister (IEC type I think) or a hard wired lead, in either case it might be worth buying some 20A rated lead and either hard wiring into the unit with a plug to go into your 15A power point, or making up a lead from the unit to the power point to minimise joins (whish is where things always go wrong).
    Or even just getting a quality 15A lead and clip off one end (get it right) and fitting either a plug to suit or hard wiring.

    As above make sure it is fully unrolled before using.
    Mark
     
  5. jackdaw

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    Posted 24/1/20
    Thanks guys.
     
  6. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 24/1/20
    I get an excellent boil at 2500 w.
     
  7. MHB

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    Posted 25/1/20
    Really?
    In a 50L batch what is your boil off rate, I seriously doubt its enough.
    Mark
     
  8. dibbz

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    Posted 25/1/20
  9. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 25/1/20
    5 litres per hour same as the 40 litre.
    005.JPG
    006.JPG
     
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  10. MHB

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    Posted 25/1/20
    That's interesting, it takes 2257kJ/kg to turn 100oC liquid water into water vapour, times 5 for 5L is 11285kJ, as its over an hour that's 11285kJ/h. convert that to W/h and it comes to 3.13472kW/h.
    Assuming the unit is perfectly insulated and there is no heat loss anywhere, if all the energy was just going into evaporating water you would need a 3.1247kW element.
    I suspect that either, element is hotter than you think, you aren't really getting 10% (5L) of evaporation, you live in a private cosmos where the usual rules just don't apply.
    Mark
     
  11. dibbz

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    Posted 25/1/20
    I reckon i go from about 47l to 40 after loss and shrinkage tho.
     
  12. dibbz

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    Posted 25/1/20
    You also spend 10-15 minutes easily between simmer to vigorous boil before starting the timer for a 60 min addition.

    Then all that ramp time on both sides. I think once you add context it's no point making an argument about half a calculation.
     
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  13. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 26/1/20
    The diameter of the kettle plays a part on the boil off rate, I have the 60 litre Brau Wolf which has a larger surface are than the Guten and the boil off rate at 2.5 KW is 6 litres.
     
  14. Engibeer

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    Posted 27/1/20
    http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/low-oxygen-boiling/

    "Boiling

    Boiling the wort
    created in the MLT adds an additional level of concern to the proceedings: It is important to control heat stress. This may come as a surprise to those who have read for years that vigorously boiling your wort is beneficial in many ways. Heat stress can serve to accelerate oxidation and affect the final flavor of the beer.

    Some of the important aspects of wort boiling in the Low Oxygen regimen are:

    • Control heat stress by limiting boil time to 60-70 minutes
    • Consider partially opened BK lid (helps limit evaporation)
    • Limit evaporation to 6-10% or less of boil volume
    • Target a “simmer” rather than a robust boil
    • Chill as rapidly as system allows to 5-6 °C
    • Do not aerate/oxygenate until yeast has been pitched"
    *Puts on flame suit*

    Seriously, I had boiled at 102C for years. Just boiled at 99C for a low-oxygen bohemian pilsner. I'm converted to the simmer.
     
  15. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 27/1/20
    6 to 10 % is pretty normal, while I do try to limit oxygen in a home brewing situation I am not going to have beer sitting around to the level to be worried about oxygen spoilage. I store my beer below 20 C and it is consumed within 3 or 4 months maximum.
     
  16. MHB

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    Posted 27/1/20
    Pilsner Urquell has always bee made at a simmer, but for 120 minutes.
    Brewing is full of tradeoffs there are real advantages to a robust boil, and there is a price to.
    If you are using Pilsner malt, one of the important considerations is the conversion of SSM into DMS and its ejection from the wort. The rate this happens is a half life reaction based on time and temperature, you need to be hot enough for long enough to get the DMS below sensory limits.

    You haven't been boiling at 102oC for years (sorry) a 1.050 wort boils at about 100.6oC, there is a rule that says you cant heat a liquid above its BP (under atmospheric pressure), what you can do is change the rate the liquid boils at by putting in more or less heat.
    If you are getting 8-10% evaporation, mission accomplished, provided the steam isn't condensing and dripping back into the kettle, which is always a concern when you leave the lid on or even partly cover the kettle. I wouldn't have a problem if you could arrange for any condensate that forms drips outside the kettle (seen some cleverly bent coat hangers used to do this)
    Commercial kettles have condensate traps in the stacks (chimney) to stop condensate return.

    If you are chilling in the kettle, yep the faster the better. As wort cools the amount of O2 that will dissolve in it increases.
    No-Chilling hot avoids this, as does an inline wort chiller, its an open kettle with a coil stuck in it (or similar) where O2 pickup during wort chilling is an issue.

    Thread has wandered a fair way off topic, might as well stay OT for a bit longer then bail.
    I still don't believe 2.5kW will give a good boil in a 50L, my first reply to this thread was based on concerns about electrical safety, when you are pulling 15A bad things can happen very fast. Like this 15A.jpg
    When wiring 15A circuits, it pays to use very good quality parts, have as few junctions as possible, keep the leads as short as you reasonably can...

    Posted it before but for Engibeer
    Mark
     

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  17. Engibeer

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    Posted 27/1/20
    Thanks MHB, lots of conflicting evidence. I was previously a strong believer of Charles Bamforth's justification for "boil with vigour".

    Back on topic, I got a 20amp outlet installed in my power box. It's adjacent to the garage. Cost about $100. I got a 20m 15A extension cord from Bunnings and that powers my Brau. I figured it was much cheaper to get it installed in the power box, and buy the extension cable. I brew in the garage anyway, as do most, so not too far away.
     
  18. Engibeer

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    Posted 27/1/20
    Oh, and I agree. My 15a cable becomes warm to the touch while brewing.
     
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